Episode 6

full
Published on:

13th Oct 2026

Melancholy, musical tension, and minor keys: Almost Like Being in Love (Michael Johnson)

A Broadway classic gets a haunting new life in Michael Johnson’s 1997 minor-key take on “Almost Like Being in Love.” In this episode, Trist and Elaine focus on its acoustic texture, slide guitar, reverb, jazz chords, and tension-building pedal tone, describing how the arrangement turns an exuberant love song into something more reflective and uncertain.

In the Mailbag segment, Elaine and Trist discuss touring’s physical demands, from disrupted sleep, flights, and time zones to the constant need to perform and socialize at full energy, comparing it to other types of business travel. They also compare traditional touring with other types of touring opportunities, like longer-term cruise ship work.

Listen to the song

Other links

About us

Trist Curless is a Los Angeles-based vocalist, educator, and sound engineer. As a performer, Trist has toured worldwide as a co-founder of the pop-jazz vocal group m-pact and a 10 year member of the Grammy-award winning The Manhattan Transfer. In addition to these two vocal powerhouse groups, he’s also performed with Take 6, Bobby McFerrin, New York Voices, Vox Audio, Naturally 7, and The Swingle Singers. His latest venture, The LHR Project, is a new vocal group collective celebrating legendary jazz vocal group Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross.

As an audio engineer, Trist has toured nationally with several vocal groups and bands in a large variety of venues, working for Grammy award winners Pentatonix and Take 6, as well as prominent a cappella vocal groups Straight No Chaser, VoicePlay, and Accent.

Elaine Chao, M.Ed is a San Francisco Bay Area-based vocalist, multi-instrumentalist, vocal percussionist, and songwriter whose career spans a cappella, contemporary worship, and classical music. She has leveraged her training in classical and choral music over the course of her contemporary performance, including in orchestras for musical theatre and in sacred spaces. In addition to music, she also is a martial artist and published author. She currently leads a product management team at a major software company dedicated to creative expression. All statements in this podcast are her own and do not reflect the opinions of her employer.

Transcript
Speaker:

Elaine: Hey, Trist, what do we have this week?

Speaker:

Trist: Oh, it's time for show tunes.

Speaker:

Elaine: Okay.

Speaker:

Trist: That's right.

Speaker:

Trist: From your favorite Broadway musical, "Brigadoon."

Speaker:

Elaine: I. What?

Speaker:

Trist: Please note, listener, that is not her favorite musical.

Speaker:

Trist: Yeah, this song is from the musical "Brigadoon," but most

Speaker:

Trist: people who even know the song don't necessarily know that.

Speaker:

Trist: And the version, of course, here on The Musician's Loupe, we

Speaker:

Trist: don't play the very original thing too often.

Speaker:

Trist: It's always like a friend of a

Speaker:

Trist: friend of a friend of a friend,

Speaker:

Trist: right?

Speaker:

Trist: This is really cool artist,

Speaker:

Trist: bigger in the 70s and 80s, named

Speaker:

Trist: Michael Johnson, doing his

Speaker:

Trist: version and kind of a flipping

Speaker:

Trist: on its head, a reinterpretation

Speaker:

Trist: of "Almost Like Being in Love,"

Speaker:

Trist: from

Speaker:

Elaine: Huh!

Speaker:

Elaine: Okay.

Speaker:

Trist: from Brigadoon.

Speaker:

Elaine: That sounds kind of familiar,

Speaker:

Elaine: but I'm going to have to listen

Speaker:

Elaine: to it to see if I actually know

Speaker:

Elaine: this one.

Speaker:

Trist: Well, this is one of those instances that it's so different

Speaker:

Trist: that you might listen to it and you might not even realize that

Speaker:

Trist: you know it right away.

Speaker:

Trist: Just

Speaker:

Elaine: Okay.

Speaker:

Trist: just warning you.

Speaker:

Elaine: Got it.

Speaker:

Elaine: So as we get into this, can you remind us how we should be

Speaker:

Elaine: listening to music as a part of The Musician's Loupe community?

Speaker:

Trist: Well, we just like to encourage you to improve your listening

Speaker:

Trist: situation, if at all possible.

Speaker:

Trist: When you can, grab the nicer headphones, grab the nicer

Speaker:

Trist: living room, the nicer listening situation, get the better car

Speaker:

Trist: with the better stereo, whatever you have to do.

Speaker:

Trist: Again, as always, if you're

Speaker:

Trist: listening to us on your walk and

Speaker:

Trist: you only have the headphones you

Speaker:

Trist: have, we are glad to have you

Speaker:

Trist: also.

Speaker:

Trist: But if you can, we just highly

Speaker:

Trist: encourage better listening when

Speaker:

Trist: possible.

Speaker:

Elaine: So we are going to leave the

Speaker:

Elaine: links to this song in our show

Speaker:

Elaine: notes.

Speaker:

Elaine: So please pause, listen to the song two or three times and we

Speaker:

Elaine: will be right back.

Speaker:

Elaine: And we're back.

Speaker:

Elaine: Okay. I did recognize this song.

Speaker:

Elaine: And also, this was a very bizarre version of the song.

Speaker:

Trist: That's what we do.

Speaker:

Elaine: It was, like, easy listening,

Speaker:

Elaine: but also in a minor key, and it

Speaker:

Elaine: just did.

Speaker:

Elaine: Wow.

Speaker:

Elaine: I have no idea where to go with this.

Speaker:

Trist: I happen to love, when a key change, an inflection change,

Speaker:

Trist: just a vibe shift can make basically the exact same words

Speaker:

Trist: tell a different story.

Speaker:

Trist: Or at least imply a different story.

Speaker:

Trist: I do love that about this particular tune.

Speaker:

Trist: And I think we'll probably include several things

Speaker:

Trist: eventually in the listening.

Speaker:

Trist: The interesting thing here, is Michael Johnson, he actually had

Speaker:

Trist: another version of this before the one that I've chosen.

Speaker:

Trist: So, his biggest hit was a song called "Bluer than Blue."

Speaker:

Trist: Pretty big AM Gold; for you AM Gold fans out there, you'll know

Speaker:

Trist: what I'm talking about.

Speaker:

Trist: If you don't, check it out.

Speaker:

Trist: Tune from the seventies.

Speaker:

Trist: Great song, great singer songwriter.

Speaker:

Trist: He had this version of this tune

Speaker:

Trist: that's still minor, but a little

Speaker:

Trist: bit more trying to be hip, funky

Speaker:

Trist: 70s production.

Speaker:

Trist: It's hard to explain.

Speaker:

Trist: You'll have to listen to the link we share.

Speaker:

Trist: It's not as acoustic based.

Speaker:

Trist: So he did the key change flip on it, the flip of the vibe of the

Speaker:

Trist: lyric once already.

Speaker:

Trist: And then this one that I've

Speaker:

Trist: chosen is a little bit different

Speaker:

Trist: because it's a little more

Speaker:

Trist: fresh.

Speaker:

Trist: I love the sound of the recording.

Speaker:

Trist: I like the vibe of it with the acoustic instruments.

Speaker:

Elaine: Let's talk a little bit about that because I wrote down as I

Speaker:

Elaine: was listening to it, the instrumentation was very simple,

Speaker:

Elaine: but everything had a lot of reverb, so it sounded

Speaker:

Trist: Mhm.

Speaker:

Elaine: like you were in the middle of.

Speaker:

Elaine: I wrote down kind of late 90s.

Speaker:

Elaine: There's a very mushy echo sound to it.

Speaker:

Elaine: And when I saw that it was 1997,

Speaker:

Elaine: I was like, oh, that totally

Speaker:

Elaine: makes sense.

Speaker:

Elaine: Not quite 2000s, not exactly

Speaker:

Trist: Right.

Speaker:

Elaine: this rawer feel, but

Speaker:

Trist: Right.

Speaker:

Elaine: a very kind of more legato feel, I guess is what I would

Speaker:

Trist: Right.

Speaker:

Elaine: say.

Speaker:

Trist: Which is way different than, again, I think the other one he

Speaker:

Trist: did in '78, maybe?

Speaker:

Trist: So definitely a "life out on the streets" vibe, kind of

Speaker:

Trist: detective-showy sound to it.

Speaker:

Trist: Again, a minor key, turning the vibe of the song on its head.

Speaker:

Trist: Um,

Speaker:

Elaine: But

Speaker:

Trist: so

Speaker:

Elaine: there was a slide guitar in

Speaker:

Trist: yeah,

Speaker:

Elaine: it as well.

Speaker:

Elaine: Right.

Speaker:

Trist: I

Speaker:

Elaine: And

Speaker:

Trist: like

Speaker:

Elaine: I

Speaker:

Trist: that.

Speaker:

Elaine: felt like that was something that was very different as well.

Speaker:

Elaine: Just thinking about, well, what

Speaker:

Elaine: about this song doesn't sound

Speaker:

Elaine: 70s?

Speaker:

Elaine: Because I was looking on YouTube and I was like, all right, you

Speaker:

Elaine: know, here we go.

Speaker:

Elaine: Michael Johnson I'm like, wait a minute.

Speaker:

Elaine: There are multiple versions of this.

Speaker:

Elaine: How do they differ?

Speaker:

Elaine: And yeah, tell me a little bit

Speaker:

Elaine: more about what you hear in the

Speaker:

Elaine: instrumentation.

Speaker:

Elaine: I've just mentioned two things.

Speaker:

Trist: Like the previous episode about bluegrass artists, it's very

Speaker:

Trist: much like that where there's a lot of acoustic instruments.

Speaker:

Trist: I like the addition of the slide guitar solo in it.

Speaker:

Trist: I just like the acoustic openness of the sound.

Speaker:

Elaine: I wanted to add in that there is this guitar in there that are

Speaker:

Elaine: playing a lot of I wrote down jazz chords, which to me is

Speaker:

Elaine: generally like major sevenths, nines that you have thrown in

Speaker:

Elaine: there as well.

Speaker:

Trist: Mhm.

Speaker:

Elaine: But the thing that really struck me was the bass and what the

Speaker:

Elaine: bass was doing.

Speaker:

Elaine: There was what I would call a poll bass in there.

Speaker:

Elaine: The entire song is moving around

Speaker:

Elaine: it, but the bass is holding the

Speaker:

Elaine: same note.

Speaker:

Trist: I think we've talked about that before.

Speaker:

Trist: Because, listener, Elaine and I

Speaker:

Trist: come from different backgrounds,

Speaker:

Trist: even though we're both

Speaker:

Trist: musicians, you'll hear different

Speaker:

Trist: things.

Speaker:

Trist: I've always heard that as a pedal tone.

Speaker:

Trist: But I've heard this before as well.

Speaker:

Elaine: I think

Speaker:

Trist: Yep.

Speaker:

Elaine: I don't know where I got this

Speaker:

Elaine: poll tone thing from, but I feel

Speaker:

Elaine: like maybe it's from church

Speaker:

Elaine: bells where

Speaker:

Trist: Could be.

Speaker:

Elaine: like- but that's tolling, right?

Speaker:

Elaine: And

Speaker:

Trist: Yep.

Speaker:

Elaine: not necessarily polling, but, um,

Speaker:

Trist: This happens

Speaker:

Elaine: there's a

Speaker:

Trist: frequently,

Speaker:

Elaine: sense of like, it doesn't change.

Speaker:

Elaine: And

Speaker:

Trist: Right.

Speaker:

Elaine: like the entire song moves around the single note, whether

Speaker:

Elaine: it's a pedal tone or a poll tone

Speaker:

Trist: it does pedal for quite for quite a bit of it.

Speaker:

Elaine: What does it do for you to hear that?

Speaker:

Trist: That's always an interesting energy thing, because the chords

Speaker:

Trist: are indeed changing.

Speaker:

Trist: But it gives a different vibe, there's a grounding to it.

Speaker:

Trist: But then almost adds a little bit of a tension, like you're

Speaker:

Trist: waiting for it to move.

Speaker:

Trist: Even before you realize that's what it is.

Speaker:

Trist: There are examples of pieces of

Speaker:

Trist: music and songs where it never

Speaker:

Trist: does happen and it just builds

Speaker:

Trist: tension throughout.

Speaker:

Trist: Some film scoring has this technique as well occasionally

Speaker:

Trist: just to build.

Speaker:

Trist: Even with changes happening in

Speaker:

Trist: the chord, sometimes keeping the

Speaker:

Trist: bass note the same, pedaling

Speaker:

Trist: through the whole section can

Speaker:

Trist: build tension.

Speaker:

Trist: You're wanting it to change with everything else.

Speaker:

Elaine: And we talked about that last

Speaker:

Elaine: season with the Björk "Overture"

Speaker:

Elaine: tune,

Speaker:

Trist: Ooh

Speaker:

Elaine: right,

Speaker:

Trist: yeah.

Speaker:

Elaine: where we were talking about.

Speaker:

Elaine: There was this pedal tone.

Speaker:

Elaine: And I think that was not necessarily a bass tone.

Speaker:

Elaine: I think that was somewhere in the middle in the orchestration,

Speaker:

Trist: Oh,

Speaker:

Elaine: I

Speaker:

Trist: I

Speaker:

Elaine: can't remember.

Speaker:

Trist: don't recall.

Speaker:

Elaine: Yeah. We can all go back to that episode.

Speaker:

Elaine: I'm sure we'll link to it at some

Speaker:

Trist: And

Speaker:

Elaine: point in time.

Speaker:

Trist: share with a friend.

Speaker:

Elaine: Exactly. But I agree with you in

Speaker:

Elaine: that this single note that holds

Speaker:

Elaine: this thread can introduce that

Speaker:

Elaine: sense of tension because this

Speaker:

Elaine: note is not necessarily in the

Speaker:

Elaine: chord of the changes that are

Speaker:

Elaine: being made.

Speaker:

Elaine: And so your brain is going on the one hand with the change in

Speaker:

Elaine: the chords and what's happening in the treble.

Speaker:

Elaine: And you're like, oh, but this is

Speaker:

Elaine: not necessarily a part of the

Speaker:

Elaine: chord.

Speaker:

Elaine: Maybe he's holding a fourth,

Speaker:

Elaine: maybe it's holding a second, and

Speaker:

Elaine: it changes the way that you feel

Speaker:

Elaine: that chord.

Speaker:

Elaine: That's part of the reason why I feel like that's such a big part

Speaker:

Elaine: of this song for me, is that it does introduce that tension

Speaker:

Elaine: between the minor key and just these changes that we are not

Speaker:

Elaine: hearing in the bass.

Speaker:

Elaine: It's introducing a lot of texture that I think would not

Speaker:

Elaine: be there otherwise.

Speaker:

Trist: Absolutely.

Speaker:

Elaine: So tell me a little bit more about the song.

Speaker:

Elaine: Why did you choose this particular song?

Speaker:

Trist: Just the multiple dimensions that we're talking about, the

Speaker:

Trist: original: "What a day this has been / what a rare-" I guess

Speaker:

Trist: that's the one difference is right away, instead of "what a

Speaker:

Trist: day this has been," It's "what a night this has been."

Speaker:

Trist: So that is the change in the lyric.

Speaker:

Trist: There's a few others, but most of those are generational rather

Speaker:

Trist: than changing the mood.

Speaker:

Trist: Like "when that bell starts to peal," like no one says that.

Speaker:

Trist: So, um, that lyric is altered.

Speaker:

Trist: And again, the musical mood and

Speaker:

Trist: key and textures that are around

Speaker:

Trist: that and the way that it's

Speaker:

Trist: delivered can absolutely change

Speaker:

Trist: it from just extolling the

Speaker:

Trist: excitement of a new love, to not

Speaker:

Trist: that.

Speaker:

Elaine: So tell me a little bit more about how the original song

Speaker:

Elaine: manifests in "Brigadoon."

Speaker:

Elaine: Like what, at what point in time in the story and what kind of

Speaker:

Elaine: story is it trying to tell?

Speaker:

Elaine: What kind of emotional value does it have in the musical?

Speaker:

Trist: Oh, I'd love to sound like I'm super educated and I know any of

Speaker:

Trist: the answers to that question, but I have zero idea whatsoever.

Speaker:

Trist: It's an amazing question, if I

Speaker:

Trist: actually knew any of the answers

Speaker:

Trist: to that.

Speaker:

Elaine: All right.

Speaker:

Elaine: So I guess we have some research to do afterwards,

Speaker:

Trist: Can't,

Speaker:

Elaine: but.

Speaker:

Trist: can't know, can't know everything.

Speaker:

Trist: That's why people can write in and they can let us know here at

Speaker:

Trist: The Musician's Loupe.

Speaker:

Trist: They can let us know how this character feels in the show.

Speaker:

Trist: I could imagine what it would be, but I do not happen to know

Speaker:

Trist: in this particular show.

Speaker:

Elaine: I see, so that means that you

Speaker:

Elaine: also do not know whether the

Speaker:

Elaine: Frank Sinatra version is closer

Speaker:

Elaine: to the original, or whether

Speaker:

Elaine: that's a reinterpretation that

Speaker:

Elaine: Frank Sinatra brings to a lot of

Speaker:

Elaine: his songs.

Speaker:

Trist: Oh, I do know that.

Speaker:

Trist: I do know that most of the

Speaker:

Trist: versions of it that you ever

Speaker:

Trist: hear are far closer to the vibe

Speaker:

Trist: and feel of the original

Speaker:

Trist: musical.

Speaker:

Trist: I just don't know where in the show it goes.

Speaker:

Trist: I don't know anything about the characters.

Speaker:

Trist: I don't know the show itself very well.

Speaker:

Trist: I'm not very well versed at that part of it, but I have heard the

Speaker:

Trist: music from the original show, and there's going to be a Nat

Speaker:

Trist: King Cole, there's an Ella Fitzgerald- It's a pretty

Speaker:

Trist: frequently done Great American Songbook song that's been sung

Speaker:

Trist: and played thousands of times.

Speaker:

Elaine: So with that, how would you

Speaker:

Elaine: contrast this version of it to

Speaker:

Elaine: the versions that everyone has

Speaker:

Elaine: done before?

Speaker:

Trist: it is thought of like, "What a day this has been," it says it's

Speaker:

Trist: almost like being in love.

Speaker:

Trist: Of course, that's the wink wink joke.

Speaker:

Trist: The joke is in the line.

Speaker:

Trist: "It's almost like being in love."

Speaker:

Trist: And they explain all of these things that are being in love.

Speaker:

Trist: I think most people, as they hear this, if they've not heard

Speaker:

Trist: this version before, will be surprised and for the first time

Speaker:

Trist: think that those lyrics could be interpreted in another way that

Speaker:

Trist: you can't really glean from the performance that you usually

Speaker:

Trist: would hear of this tune.

Speaker:

Elaine: I agree that I hear a bit of melancholy in

Speaker:

Trist: Mhm.

Speaker:

Elaine: this version of it.

Speaker:

Elaine: First of all, minor key.

Speaker:

Elaine: Second

Speaker:

Trist: Mhm.

Speaker:

Elaine: of all, just the tenderness in his voice.

Speaker:

Trist: Mhm.

Speaker:

Elaine: It is not something that is really sung front and center.

Speaker:

Elaine: It's not very exuberant.

Speaker:

Elaine: It's almost a little bit reflective.

Speaker:

Elaine: And

Speaker:

Trist: Mhm.

Speaker:

Elaine: in a way that is almost, I don't know how to put it.

Speaker:

Elaine: It's not exactly depressive, but

Speaker:

Trist: Right.

Speaker:

Elaine: it is not necessarily something that is good.

Speaker:

Elaine: It's almost like Eeyore, like

Speaker:

Elaine: what, happens if you stick

Speaker:

Elaine: Eeyore in front of a love song

Speaker:

Elaine: or something?

Speaker:

Trist: Right.

Speaker:

Elaine: Like, ohhh-kayyy.

Speaker:

Elaine: The line that really sticks out

Speaker:

Elaine: to me is: "Can't believe this is

Speaker:

Elaine: real."

Speaker:

Trist: Mhm.

Speaker:

Elaine: And so I don't know whether what I'm hearing is a fear that's

Speaker:

Elaine: coming out that

Speaker:

Trist: Right.

Speaker:

Elaine: potentially what I'm feeling right now is something that I'm

Speaker:

Elaine: afraid is not real.

Speaker:

Trist: Right.

Speaker:

Elaine: And so there's a sense of, I think I'm falling in love, but

Speaker:

Elaine: I'm not entirely sure.

Speaker:

Elaine: And how do I feel about this?

Speaker:

Elaine: And almost talking yourself out of it in some ways,

Speaker:

Trist: Mhm.

Speaker:

Elaine: I don't know if that's exactly what you hear.

Speaker:

Trist: I want to clarify, I think just

Speaker:

Trist: the presentation being so

Speaker:

Trist: opposite.

Speaker:

Trist: I don't think it becomes a non love song anymore.

Speaker:

Trist: It's showing that these lyrics can be seen in a different way.

Speaker:

Trist: It doesn't feel like brand new love that you're excited about.

Speaker:

Trist: It's almost like, oh man, I

Speaker:

Trist: really shouldn't be falling in

Speaker:

Trist: love with this person, and yet I

Speaker:

Trist: am.

Speaker:

Trist: It's resistant new love.

Speaker:

Trist: It's just a different attitude

Speaker:

Trist: all around that you get from

Speaker:

Trist: this delivery than from the

Speaker:

Trist: musical or your favorite

Speaker:

Trist: interpreter of the Great

Speaker:

Trist: American Songbook.

Speaker:

Elaine: Just thinking back on the songs

Speaker:

Elaine: that we've reviewed over this

Speaker:

Elaine: season and last season, thinking

Speaker:

Elaine: about the covers that we've

Speaker:

Elaine: covered.

Speaker:

Elaine: Certainly, earlier this season we just reviewed "Cool," from

Speaker:

Elaine: West Side Story in the cover that Patti Austin did.

Speaker:

Elaine: Last year, we did "Over the Rainbow," with Lorez Alexandria.

Speaker:

Elaine: There was the George Michael

Speaker:

Elaine: version of "I Can't Make You

Speaker:

Elaine: Love Me."

Speaker:

Elaine: And so as I think about it, you

Speaker:

Elaine: and I have talked about this

Speaker:

Elaine: before.

Speaker:

Elaine: There are some covers that are a

Speaker:

Elaine: little bit closer in style to

Speaker:

Elaine: the original.

Speaker:

Elaine: And so it's more like, oh, I'm trying to sound like this.

Speaker:

Elaine: We just did one last week, where

Speaker:

Elaine: they were even trying to sound

Speaker:

Elaine: like the indie rock band as

Speaker:

Elaine: opposed to sounding like

Speaker:

Elaine: themselves.

Speaker:

Elaine: And then there are these

Speaker:

Elaine: reinventions where it really

Speaker:

Elaine: just takes it in a different

Speaker:

Elaine: direction.

Speaker:

Elaine: I guess it just brings to mind

Speaker:

Elaine: this perennial question we've

Speaker:

Elaine: tried to talk about on this

Speaker:

Elaine: podcast: it's two different

Speaker:

Elaine: approaches, and I'm wondering

Speaker:

Elaine: how much of a spectrum there is

Speaker:

Elaine: in between these two extremes of

Speaker:

Elaine: really strong reinvention versus

Speaker:

Elaine: as faithful to the original as

Speaker:

Elaine: possible.

Speaker:

Trist: I tend to feel like the straight

Speaker:

Trist: ahead cover is more common for a

Speaker:

Trist: live setting.

Speaker:

Trist: The saying I like to say is, well, the world already has

Speaker:

Trist: that, so why record it as close to exact as possible again?

Speaker:

Trist: We've already got that.

Speaker:

Trist: Now, if in a live concert you'd like to try to replicate this

Speaker:

Trist: thing and like present it as part of the set of songs you're

Speaker:

Trist: sharing and, remember how cool this song is?

Speaker:

Trist: Great!

Speaker:

Trist: And so even all those singers

Speaker:

Trist: who might sing this similarly,

Speaker:

Trist: there's still an arrangement

Speaker:

Trist: that's done, like someone's

Speaker:

Trist: arranged and put their horn

Speaker:

Trist: parts in it or maybe changed a

Speaker:

Trist: few chords.

Speaker:

Trist: This song does have a verse in

Speaker:

Trist: front of it that's frequently

Speaker:

Trist: done.

Speaker:

Trist: now when you're recording, it's

Speaker:

Trist: like, ooh, I'm going to

Speaker:

Trist: completely change the mood of

Speaker:

Trist: this.

Speaker:

Trist: I'm going to talk about a love that's a different kind of love,

Speaker:

Trist: or I'm going to talk about a love that maybe happens to two

Speaker:

Trist: people later in life or that are more mature, or it's not always

Speaker:

Trist: just bright and happy.

Speaker:

Trist: Like there can be a melancholy to these kinds of things.

Speaker:

Trist: And so that kind of an

Speaker:

Trist: arrangement, it's like, yeah, I

Speaker:

Trist: want to document that, I want to

Speaker:

Trist: record it.

Speaker:

Trist: It feels more like the less

Speaker:

Trist: originality you bring to it, the

Speaker:

Trist: less you hear people wanting to

Speaker:

Trist: necessarily do a recording of

Speaker:

Trist: it.

Speaker:

Trist: Because the world has it already.

Speaker:

Trist: is what I like to say.

Speaker:

Elaine: Well, when you were talking, what came to mind were a couple

Speaker:

Elaine: of indie bands that I was really into for quite some time.

Speaker:

Elaine: One of them, Moxy Früvous and

Speaker:

Elaine: the other one, Da Vinci's

Speaker:

Elaine: Notebook.

Speaker:

Elaine: And you and I both know people from DVN.

Speaker:

Elaine: And both of them had just sheer out reinventions of some of

Speaker:

Elaine: their core pieces that they recorded as studio.

Speaker:

Elaine: So they have two different studio versions.

Speaker:

Elaine: One of them is more of, oh, okay, here's an upbeat version

Speaker:

Elaine: that everyone knows and loves, knows all the lyrics to.

Speaker:

Elaine: And then here's another version that's like the grunge version.

Speaker:

Elaine: Or like, what would happen if

Speaker:

Elaine: you reinvented this so that this

Speaker:

Elaine: is the like depressive,

Speaker:

Elaine: alcoholic version of this, I

Speaker:

Elaine: don't know.

Speaker:

Elaine: But there is something

Speaker:

Elaine: delightful about those

Speaker:

Elaine: reinventions as well, because

Speaker:

Elaine: people have such a grounding in

Speaker:

Elaine: their original that it breaks

Speaker:

Elaine: their mind to hear something

Speaker:

Elaine: different or it tickles them

Speaker:

Elaine: because it is a reinvention of

Speaker:

Elaine: something that they know so

Speaker:

Elaine: well.

Speaker:

Elaine: I go back and forth about that because I enjoy both of them.

Speaker:

Elaine: And I think it's an artistic choice that people can make.

Speaker:

Trist: And this is where, of course, the jazz fan in me comes in,

Speaker:

Trist: where I like the variety.

Speaker:

Trist: I like the essence of jazz music is taking these melodies, even

Speaker:

Trist: if it's a melody you've written.

Speaker:

Trist: But then, immediately kind of your own theme and variations,

Speaker:

Trist: which is also an old thing.

Speaker:

Trist: You've got classical musicians: Oh, this is variations on a

Speaker:

Trist: theme from this other composer.

Speaker:

Trist: I think that's always been

Speaker:

Trist: around like combining the

Speaker:

Trist: familiar.

Speaker:

Trist: Like you said, with a cappella

Speaker:

Trist: groups better than with cover

Speaker:

Trist: bands, a cappella group's like,

Speaker:

Trist: great.

Speaker:

Trist: If I sing this just like the song, I already have an original

Speaker:

Trist: element in that we're doing it with our voices.

Speaker:

Trist: So there's an original element and then, hey, we're doing a

Speaker:

Trist: song you've already heard, so you already like it.

Speaker:

Trist: So we don't have to do the work

Speaker:

Trist: of creating a brand new amazing

Speaker:

Trist: song, even though that could be

Speaker:

Trist: the case.

Speaker:

Trist: It happens a lot, whether we're

Speaker:

Trist: a regular cover band that just

Speaker:

Trist: covers it.

Speaker:

Trist: It's like, okay, that's fun.

Speaker:

Trist: You're not listening to their artistry.

Speaker:

Trist: You're going out for a fun night

Speaker:

Trist: to hear a band play songs that

Speaker:

Trist: you know, instead of just

Speaker:

Trist: listening to a DJ play the

Speaker:

Trist: songs.

Speaker:

Trist: Even being in like an a cappella

Speaker:

Trist: group, again, you have this

Speaker:

Trist: original element with the

Speaker:

Trist: familiar.

Speaker:

Trist: So I think that's sometimes the case here too.

Speaker:

Trist: It's like, okay, here's this

Speaker:

Trist: familiar song, but what am I

Speaker:

Trist: going to do to get your

Speaker:

Trist: attention?

Speaker:

Trist: And so you've got the magical combination of this thing that I

Speaker:

Trist: know, so I'm drawn to it.

Speaker:

Trist: Oh, now that you have my attention, let me check out all

Speaker:

Trist: the things that you've done with it that are your creative.

Speaker:

Trist: So it's almost like writing a

Speaker:

Trist: brand new song using an existing

Speaker:

Trist: song.

Speaker:

Elaine: Right.

Speaker:

Elaine: Well, anything you want to add before we wrap up?

Speaker:

Trist: I think that's it.

Speaker:

Trist: I'd love to hear from folks

Speaker:

Trist: about their favorite versions of

Speaker:

Trist: these.

Speaker:

Trist: And maybe what your favorite version is even of the two

Speaker:

Trist: Michael Johnson versions.

Speaker:

Trist: Or your favorite Great American Songbook singer.

Speaker:

Trist: There's a lot of great versions.

Speaker:

Trist: I'd love to hear from folks about that.

Speaker:

Trist: And you can do that where?

Speaker:

Elaine: You can contact us via email at

Speaker:

Elaine: themusiciansloupe@gmail.com or

Speaker:

Elaine: via Threads or Instagram

Speaker:

Elaine: @themusiciansloupe.

Speaker:

Trist: Please do that.

Speaker:

Elaine: All right.

Speaker:

Elaine: So we're going to switch over into our.

Speaker:

Trist: Mailbag!

Speaker:

Elaine: That's right. The Mailbag.

Speaker:

Elaine: And we're looking forward to

Speaker:

Elaine: hearing from you about any of

Speaker:

Elaine: the topics we've talked about

Speaker:

Elaine: above.

Speaker:

Elaine: Definitely drop us a line if you have some thoughts.

Speaker:

Elaine: We love hearing from you.

Speaker:

Elaine: So this week we are once again in Threads.

Speaker:

Elaine: And this is a message from

Speaker:

Elaine: @silhouette13studio from August

Speaker:

Elaine: of 2026.

Speaker:

Elaine: And he writes: "Musicians, what's the most physically

Speaker:

Elaine: demanding part of touring?"

Speaker:

Trist: Hmm.

Speaker:

Elaine: And you have done probably 100 times more touring than I have.

Speaker:

Elaine: So I would love for you to go first.

Speaker:

Trist: It really depends on each person.

Speaker:

Trist: A lot of it depends.

Speaker:

Trist: It depends on what kind of tour, what kind of musician you are.

Speaker:

Trist: What do you play?

Speaker:

Trist: What do you sing?

Speaker:

Trist: What are the demands?

Speaker:

Trist: What kind of environment?

Speaker:

Trist: Are you lucky enough to have luxury touring?

Speaker:

Trist: I kind of joked about it in saying that the answer is the

Speaker:

Trist: most physically demanding part of touring is touring.

Speaker:

Trist: But there's a little truth in that it really is just every

Speaker:

Trist: part of it.

Speaker:

Trist: Because physically you might be

Speaker:

Trist: sleeping in different places

Speaker:

Trist: every night if you're on a bus

Speaker:

Trist: tour.

Speaker:

Trist: For some, that's way better.

Speaker:

Trist: For some that's worse.

Speaker:

Trist: If you're doing a lot of flying, obviously the physical demands

Speaker:

Trist: that flying requires.

Speaker:

Trist: So it's knowing what you're doing.

Speaker:

Trist: Are you a vocalist?

Speaker:

Trist: So you need to maintain things for your vocal health.

Speaker:

Trist: But even if not, just being

Speaker:

Trist: healthy and getting some

Speaker:

Trist: workouts in, because you're not

Speaker:

Trist: just sitting in some kind of

Speaker:

Trist: transportation, whether it's in

Speaker:

Trist: the sky or on the ground, making

Speaker:

Trist: sure that you're still able

Speaker:

Trist: bodied and have all of your

Speaker:

Trist: facilities to perform at your

Speaker:

Trist: best.

Speaker:

Trist: And just making time to make sure you have the amount of

Speaker:

Trist: sleep that you need to the best of your ability.

Speaker:

Elaine: And that's not even talking about time zone changes.

Speaker:

Trist: Yeah, you just never know.

Speaker:

Trist: And, it really depends.

Speaker:

Trist: In Europe, being a smaller,

Speaker:

Trist: concentrated area, like you

Speaker:

Trist: might be in a different country

Speaker:

Trist: every day.

Speaker:

Trist: And if you're doing that and flying around.

Speaker:

Trist: Every day, that means probably a 4 or 5 AM lobby call to make a

Speaker:

Trist: flight that gets you to the place that has a buffer just in

Speaker:

Trist: case there's something wrong or delayed with the flight.

Speaker:

Trist: All of that built into it where,

Speaker:

Trist: if you get lucky enough that you

Speaker:

Trist: can route even a week of it just

Speaker:

Trist: on a bus where you, can sleep in

Speaker:

Trist: a bunk on a bus, that might not

Speaker:

Trist: sound great, but man, for me,

Speaker:

Trist: that's amazing.

Speaker:

Trist: Don't have to worry about checking in and out of a hotel,

Speaker:

Trist: checking in and out of a flight.

Speaker:

Trist: You're just there.

Speaker:

Trist: You save so much more time and you get so much more sleep.

Speaker:

Elaine: As you were talking, one of the

Speaker:

Elaine: things that came to mind was

Speaker:

Elaine: business travel.

Speaker:

Elaine: I've definitely done some

Speaker:

Elaine: business travel on behalf of my

Speaker:

Elaine: company.

Speaker:

Elaine: And some of the hardest things

Speaker:

Elaine: for me has been the extroversion

Speaker:

Elaine: and having to be "on" at all

Speaker:

Elaine: times.

Speaker:

Elaine: Especially if you're traveling

Speaker:

Elaine: with people, okay, let's

Speaker:

Elaine: coordinate dinners.

Speaker:

Elaine: What time are we meeting?

Speaker:

Elaine: How much time do I have to myself?

Speaker:

Elaine: And then when I'm on the road

Speaker:

Elaine: and talking to customers all the

Speaker:

Elaine: time, it's like, okay, I got to

Speaker:

Elaine: be on my A game for this 90

Speaker:

Elaine: minute meeting.

Speaker:

Elaine: And then we got to sit in traffic to this other thing for

Speaker:

Elaine: this lunch that we're having with another customer and

Speaker:

Elaine: another customer over here.

Speaker:

Elaine: I need to go another 90 minute meeting.

Speaker:

Elaine: And then we have like a 200

Speaker:

Elaine: person event that we need to

Speaker:

Elaine: host.

Speaker:

Elaine: And so all of those things is a lot of output.

Speaker:

Trist: Sure.

Speaker:

Elaine: Um, and when you're talking about just emotional output, so

Speaker:

Elaine: there's this sense of having to be an extrovert.

Speaker:

Elaine: And I am a little bit of an

Speaker:

Elaine: extrovert, I'm not as much as I

Speaker:

Elaine: think I might seem, but that

Speaker:

Elaine: focus on, well, how "on" do I

Speaker:

Elaine: need to be at all points in

Speaker:

Elaine: time?

Speaker:

Elaine: And so travel days, great.

Speaker:

Elaine: I can be in my t shirt and jeans

Speaker:

Elaine: and whatever, and we can have a

Speaker:

Elaine: three hour train ride to another

Speaker:

Elaine: location, but it does take it

Speaker:

Elaine: out of you to be constantly on

Speaker:

Elaine: the move.

Speaker:

Elaine: But more than that, constantly surrounded by people.

Speaker:

Trist: Indeed.

Speaker:

Trist: And if you're partaking in something where you need to also

Speaker:

Trist: have a just before or just after the show where you're doing a

Speaker:

Trist: meet and greet or you're signing items for fans.

Speaker:

Trist: That's another thing.

Speaker:

Trist: Sure, you're not performing.

Speaker:

Trist: But like you said, you have to be "on."

Speaker:

Trist: You have interviews where you have to be "on."

Speaker:

Trist: You don't get to downshift.

Speaker:

Trist: That plays an important part as well.

Speaker:

Elaine: For me, business travel is also, oh man, like hair and makeup.

Speaker:

Elaine: That takes twice as long as any other type of thing.

Speaker:

Elaine: Me getting out of the house, I need to be fully prepared for

Speaker:

Elaine: all the things that might happen when I'm at the venue.

Speaker:

Elaine: So do I have all of my charging gear?

Speaker:

Elaine: Do I have backups for my backups?

Speaker:

Elaine: Do I have my water bottle?

Speaker:

Elaine: Does it have a filter on it?

Speaker:

Elaine: All of those tiny little things

Speaker:

Elaine: that can make or break an event

Speaker:

Elaine: is the type of thing that you're

Speaker:

Elaine: thinking.

Speaker:

Elaine: It's like a wedding every day.

Speaker:

Elaine: You're like wedding planning every day.

Speaker:

Elaine: I do wonder, hearing me talk about business travel, how close

Speaker:

Elaine: do you think it is to your experience of touring?

Speaker:

Trist: I think it's a lot of similarities because there's a

Speaker:

Trist: lot of different kinds of business travel also.

Speaker:

Trist: Different people have different experiences.

Speaker:

Trist: There are a lot of different levels to it, even financially,

Speaker:

Trist: that maybe your company can or can't afford to do.

Speaker:

Trist: So to some degree, some people would think, "Oh wow, that's

Speaker:

Trist: your business travel?

Speaker:

Trist: That's like luxury.

Speaker:

Trist: That's like not even traveling" when they would see maybe what

Speaker:

Trist: you got to do.

Speaker:

Trist: I'd say it's probably comparable.

Speaker:

Trist: There's a lot of the similar things in terms of like, we both

Speaker:

Trist: even use the phrase of like "being on" all the time.

Speaker:

Elaine: The impact on the body is also probably pretty heavy as well.

Speaker:

Elaine: And I will also say that one of

Speaker:

Elaine: the privileges of working in a

Speaker:

Elaine: corporate touring environment, I

Speaker:

Elaine: guess, is that the number of

Speaker:

Elaine: late night events is very, very

Speaker:

Elaine: low.

Speaker:

Elaine: So we're not necessarily doing two shows a night and then

Speaker:

Elaine: having to unwind and go to bed and then get up at five o'clock

Speaker:

Elaine: in the morning.

Speaker:

Elaine: If we get up at five o'clock in the morning, we generally don't

Speaker:

Elaine: have anything beyond like an early dinner the night before.

Speaker:

Elaine: And so I think that is a little bit better.

Speaker:

Elaine: I do have some friends who for decades of their lives, worked

Speaker:

Elaine: as corporate evangelists.

Speaker:

Elaine: And so they were on the road for, I think the first year that

Speaker:

Elaine: I got to know them, these three gentlemen were comparing how

Speaker:

Elaine: many days of the year they were on the road.

Speaker:

Elaine: And it was somewhere between, I

Speaker:

Elaine: think they were like 269, 270,

Speaker:

Elaine: and 271.

Speaker:

Elaine: And that to me is more than comparable to someone who is

Speaker:

Elaine: full time as a touring musician.

Speaker:

Elaine: I'm also curious because recently the algorithm has been

Speaker:

Elaine: sending me a lot of videos from people who are working on cruise

Speaker:

Elaine: ships and who do that full time.

Speaker:

Elaine: I know that you've done a couple of cruise ship gigs as a

Speaker:

Elaine: traveling musician, but did you have a chance to talk with full

Speaker:

Elaine: time musicians on cruise ships and what their life was like?

Speaker:

Trist: Yeah, you'll occasionally get to talk with folks like that.

Speaker:

Trist: It's very different.

Speaker:

Trist: I've only been on as what they usually call a "fly on" act.

Speaker:

Trist: So, part of an entertainment

Speaker:

Trist: that just goes on the boat for

Speaker:

Trist: one week.

Speaker:

Trist: We arrive in the middle of one cruise, perform one night only

Speaker:

Trist: for those people on that cruise, and then they leave the ship,

Speaker:

Trist: new people get on the ship, and then you perform one night only

Speaker:

Trist: for the next set of people.

Speaker:

Trist: So they at least get two shows out of you, and you still get to

Speaker:

Trist: be on for a week.

Speaker:

Trist: So you kind of leave in the middle of the next cruise.

Speaker:

Trist: So those are "fly on" entertainment that's usually

Speaker:

Trist: concert pianist, string quartets, comedians, acrobats,

Speaker:

Trist: just a variety of shows that could be that.

Speaker:

Trist: But then there are musicians who

Speaker:

Trist: are, oh, I'm a bass player on

Speaker:

Trist: this ship, so I play for that

Speaker:

Trist: one singer in the lounge on

Speaker:

Trist: Tuesdays.

Speaker:

Trist: On Wednesdays I play in the show band in the theater.

Speaker:

Trist: So a musician that just plays all over a ship, they have

Speaker:

Trist: contracts that are usually 3, 6, or 9 months, I believe?

Speaker:

Trist: So that's a completely different thing.

Speaker:

Trist: Snd I have very much enjoyed the fly on and just be on for a week

Speaker:

Trist: and leave because it's just like you're just on a cruise and I

Speaker:

Trist: had to perform two times.

Speaker:

Trist: So it's like you're on a cruise and instead of paying for it,

Speaker:

Trist: you get paid to be there and you quote unquote work two nights of

Speaker:

Trist: the seven that you're on.

Speaker:

Trist: So, very much spoiled in that regard.

Speaker:

Trist: Whereas also the working

Speaker:

Trist: musicians that are on most of

Speaker:

Trist: the time, they also have other

Speaker:

Trist: duties.

Speaker:

Trist: When you get on and you have to

Speaker:

Trist: do all of the emergency

Speaker:

Trist: procedures, like, oh, I'm the

Speaker:

Trist: bass player, but I'm in charge

Speaker:

Trist: of Deck 2A at the beginning of

Speaker:

Trist: every cruise to tell the cruise

Speaker:

Trist: people where to go in case of

Speaker:

Trist: emergency and where their life

Speaker:

Trist: preserver is.

Speaker:

Trist: And I always have to clean up

Speaker:

Trist: that area on Thursdays or

Speaker:

Trist: whatever.

Speaker:

Trist: There's just other random duties because they become more helpful

Speaker:

Trist: in being crew to keep a whole ship in shape.

Speaker:

Elaine: One video that I was watching recently had to do with the

Speaker:

Elaine: social turnover and thinking about the social impact of

Speaker:

Elaine: living on a cruise ship for, 3, 6, 9 months or even longer,

Speaker:

Elaine: depending on what type of contract you have and whether

Speaker:

Elaine: you renew your contract or not.

Speaker:

Elaine: And just thinking about the social bonds that we form.

Speaker:

Elaine: We all have friends, we have

Speaker:

Elaine: friends that we've known for a

Speaker:

Elaine: really long time, we get to talk

Speaker:

Elaine: with them.

Speaker:

Elaine: And so when you're – I don't want to say – trapped in a tin

Speaker:

Elaine: can, but if you're on the ship for a long time, you don't have

Speaker:

Elaine: the benefit of being so close to the people that you love.

Speaker:

Elaine: And I think that that is something that is a good

Speaker:

Elaine: reminder to me about the sacrifices that people make to

Speaker:

Elaine: be able to make this type of living and thinking about the

Speaker:

Elaine: differences between the tours, and then you go back home in

Speaker:

Elaine: between, or the tours where you're part of a traveling city

Speaker:

Elaine: for 6 months.

Speaker:

Elaine: I know you and I both have friends who do that as well.

Speaker:

Elaine: The impact that it has on your families, your friendships, your

Speaker:

Elaine: activities that you do outside of work, etc..

Speaker:

Trist: Well, two things.

Speaker:

Trist: This is also why it's usually great for younger entertainers

Speaker:

Trist: right out of college.

Speaker:

Trist: It's a great place to just get reps to get better at your

Speaker:

Trist: craft, out as a professional.

Speaker:

Trist: And then the thing you're talking about, the fact that

Speaker:

Trist: there's so many people coming and going, but then you become

Speaker:

Trist: even stronger and even closer to the people who are on all the

Speaker:

Trist: time, the people who have the longer contracts that you're

Speaker:

Trist: there with, because most of the boat is changing every week.

Speaker:

Trist: And so you have your crew, all

Speaker:

Trist: of your people that you know,

Speaker:

Trist: that are in your shows with you

Speaker:

Trist: or just other people in other

Speaker:

Trist: parts of the crew that are

Speaker:

Trist: longer lasting members on the

Speaker:

Trist: boat.

Speaker:

Trist: Really, there are a lot of things that, you would think

Speaker:

Trist: aren't attractive about it, but man, to someone just coming out

Speaker:

Trist: of school, they don't have any other jobs that they've been

Speaker:

Trist: offered anyway, or they're not paying as much, or it pays about

Speaker:

Trist: as much, but this is consistent and it's always happening.

Speaker:

Trist: And all your stuff is kind of taken care of because you're

Speaker:

Trist: living on a boat.

Speaker:

Trist: So there's a lot of positives about it for a young entertainer

Speaker:

Trist: coming out of school.

Speaker:

Elaine: Well, any last thing to say about this before we wrap up?

Speaker:

Trist: No, I mean, touring is tough just because of touring.

Speaker:

Trist: That's it.

Speaker:

Elaine: Well, I agree with you.

Speaker:

Elaine: So before we wrap up completely, we would love to remind you that

Speaker:

Elaine: we have playlists and we would love for you to share them.

Speaker:

Trist: That's right.

Speaker:

Trist: One big, long Season 1.

Speaker:

Trist: And now we're slowly adding to Season 2.

Speaker:

Trist: It's a really good road trip playlist, that Season 1, a

Speaker:

Trist: variety of artists on there.

Speaker:

Trist: Share that with some friends.

Speaker:

Trist: And even if that's it, they'll just know we exist.

Speaker:

Trist: And if they come across a song that they want to know more

Speaker:

Trist: about, well, then they can check out that episode.

Speaker:

Elaine: We really appreciate you.

Speaker:

Elaine: Thank you for joining us this

Speaker:

Elaine: week and we will see you next

Speaker:

Elaine: week.

Speaker:

Trist: See you soon.

Speaker:

Elaine: I was like, what?

Speaker:

Elaine: That's not.

Speaker:

Elaine: Is that really where it's from?

Speaker:

Trist: All right.

Speaker:

Trist: Thanks for joining us this week.

Speaker:

Elaine: You surprised me.

Speaker:

Elaine: The stunned look on my face like, wait,

Speaker:

Trist: I was like,

Speaker:

Elaine: what?

Speaker:

Elaine: My language is already starting to go.

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About the Podcast

The Musician's Loupe
Listen to music like a musician
A discussion about music and musicianship by Trist Curless (jazz singer, educator, sound engineer, and recording engineer, formerly of m-pact and The Manhattan Transfer) and Elaine Chao, M.Ed (multi-instrumentalist, vocalist, beatboxer, singer-songwriter, author, and former educator). Each week, we listen to a song together and discuss the music we love through the lens of decades in the music industry. Topics include analysis of songwriting, chord progression, instrumentation, recording technology, and arrangement.