Seasons, acoustic instruments, and a cross-genre collaboration: “Summer” (India.Arie)
India.Arie's "Summer" stands out as a genre-blending gem, and this week’s episode explores the song's instrumentation via the collaboration of Rascal Flatts and legendary bassist Victor Wooten. India.Arie's takes a detour from her classic R&B into a lighter, almost country sound, combining light harmonies, creative chord progressions, and orchestration with a summery, cross-genre appeal.
In the Mailbag section, we respond to insights about essential music industry terminology, offering practical advice for musicians navigating showcases, bookings, and collaborations. We emphasize that clear communication and humility are more valuable than jargon alone. This segment is packed with real-world tips for artists at any stage, making it a must-listen for those looking to strengthen their professional toolkit in the music business.
Listen to the song
- YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wu819TDx0E
- Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/track/7wib8BDGImkvksc7GD42al?si=8e5510f0c2b64bc5
- Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/us/song/summer-feat-rascal-flatts-victor-wooten/1443496621
- Amazon - https://music.amazon.com/albums/B073GTX2TJ?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_mMuSSRHzJE1NhChrO0PguOK4a&trackAsin=B073GVGDWK
Other links
- Playlist of the songs we’ve reviewed
- YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5bn23baJ4xQ1t0TMqukELY5W95HwuMoT
- Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4uCOVpr4NcWT5SGWlZEnnw?si=8j8p7QwlQxmTNNFwFMvCeg
- Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/songs-reviewed-on-the-musicians-loupe/pl.u-V9D7maah06JNo
- Amazon Music - https://music.amazon.com/user-playlists/57132299c0b9470dbd67fcab0b41db79sune?ref=dm_sh_LYPlw2RWiTdf09DUmvLHjqGve
About us
Trist Curless is a Los Angeles-based vocalist, educator, and sound engineer. As a performer, Trist has toured worldwide as a co-founder of the pop-jazz vocal group m-pact and a 10 year member of the Grammy-award winning The Manhattan Transfer. In addition to these two vocal powerhouse groups, he’s also performed with Take 6, Bobby McFerrin, New York Voices, Vox Audio, Naturally 7, and The Swingle Singers. His latest venture, The LHR Project, is a new vocal group collective celebrating legendary jazz vocal group Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross.
As an audio engineer, Trist has toured nationally with several vocal groups and bands in a large variety of venues, working for Grammy award winners Pentatonix and Take 6, as well as prominent a cappella vocal groups Straight No Chaser, VoicePlay, and Accent.
Elaine Chao, M.Ed is a San Francisco Bay Area-based vocalist, multi-instrumentalist, vocal percussionist, and songwriter whose career spans a cappella, contemporary worship, and classical music. She has leveraged her training in classical and choral music over the course of her contemporary performance, including in orchestras for musical theatre and in sacred spaces. In addition to music, she also is a martial artist and published author. She currently leads a product management team at a major software company dedicated to creative expression. All statements in this podcast are her own and do not reflect the opinions of her employer.
Transcript
Elaine: Hey, Trist, what do we have this week?
Speaker:Trist: Sometimes there are artists who you kind of expect a certain
Speaker:Trist: thing from them.
Speaker:Trist: And then there's an occasional song that they do that's just a
Speaker:Trist: little bit off the beaten path from their normal thing.
Speaker:Trist: That is what we're doing this week.
Speaker:Trist: It's a song called "Summer" by the artist India.Arie.
Speaker:Elaine: Ooh.
Speaker:Trist: Smack dab in the middle of
Speaker:Trist: summer here, as we record this
Speaker:Trist: episode.
Speaker:Trist: So I thought about this one.
Speaker:Trist: I love this track.
Speaker:Trist: And, hopefully you'll like it too.
Speaker:Elaine: All right, so before we get into it, can you remind us how we're
Speaker:Elaine: listening to music as a part of The Musician's Loupe?
Speaker:Trist: We here at The Loupe really encourage you to find the best
Speaker:Trist: listening situation you can.
Speaker:Trist: If you need to get out the good headphones, listen in the nice
Speaker:Trist: quiet space, go for a drive if that's where the good stereo is.
Speaker:Trist: Lots of great ways to just
Speaker:Trist: listen to music in an easy way,
Speaker:Trist: but it's not always the absolute
Speaker:Trist: best.
Speaker:Trist: So treat yourself to a better listening situation if you can.
Speaker:Trist: And as always, we appreciate that you're listening to us
Speaker:Trist: regardless, but if you have a moment to improve it, go for it.
Speaker:Elaine: Feel free to pause the episode, go and listen to those songs and
Speaker:Elaine: we'll be right back.
Speaker:Elaine: And we are back.
Speaker:Elaine: Oh, wow.
Speaker:Elaine: That was so delightful.
Speaker:Elaine: I will say that that is not what I expected.
Speaker:Elaine: I have only heard of India.Arie
Speaker:Elaine: before. I've
Speaker:Elaine: actually not heard her music. And
Speaker:Elaine: so I don't know. Is
Speaker:Elaine: this representative? Her
Speaker:Elaine: voice is great.
Speaker:Trist: Yeah. She is pretty versatile,
Speaker:Trist: does a lot of things, but at
Speaker:Trist: least the things I know from her
Speaker:Trist: are a little bit more
Speaker:Trist: traditional kind of contemporary
Speaker:Trist: R&B tunes.
Speaker:Trist: so just the lighter, I think it's very summery sounding.
Speaker:Trist: I always think of summer when I just hear the vibe of the
Speaker:Trist: acoustic guitars, the chords, the background vocals.
Speaker:Trist: It's kind of sparse.
Speaker:Trist: It's not an overly produced thing that maybe some of her
Speaker:Trist: tracks can be.
Speaker:Trist: I do like that it is different from her normal stuff.
Speaker:Elaine: I see.
Speaker:Elaine: I love the quality of her voice.
Speaker:Elaine: It was very husky and yet pure.
Speaker:Elaine: And then there were these harmonies that you were talking
Speaker:Elaine: about that came in.
Speaker:Elaine: I actually almost didn't hear
Speaker:Elaine: the third harmony for the first
Speaker:Elaine: time I listened to it, and it
Speaker:Elaine: wasn't until I was really
Speaker:Elaine: listening to where the harmonies
Speaker:Elaine: came in that I was like, oh,
Speaker:Elaine: wait, there's another voice in
Speaker:Elaine: there.
Speaker:Elaine: And one of the things I was
Speaker:Elaine: listening to was, oh, sometimes
Speaker:Elaine: there was a harmony on the
Speaker:Elaine: right.
Speaker:Elaine: Sometimes there was a harmony on the left, because there was this
Speaker:Elaine: usage of stereo in the recording that I thought was, oh, okay,
Speaker:Elaine: I'm now in the midst of space and I can hear these voices
Speaker:Elaine: coming in where the lead was coming in from the center.
Speaker:Elaine: And then I had the harmonies
Speaker:Elaine: coming in and right and left
Speaker:Elaine: that gave me the sense of, oh,
Speaker:Elaine: okay, there's actually multiple
Speaker:Elaine: people here.
Speaker:Trist: Very cool.
Speaker:Trist: And those background vocals also
Speaker:Trist: being from country band artists,
Speaker:Trist: Rascal Flatts.
Speaker:Trist: The main lead singer, and I feel like both the other guys are
Speaker:Trist: there very sparsely in places if you're really listening for it,
Speaker:Trist: but primarily I hear Gary LeVox, the lead vocalist of that band,
Speaker:Trist: I feel like I'm hearing him mostly with her.
Speaker:Trist: And it's a perfect sound for the song.
Speaker:Elaine: It is.
Speaker:Elaine: And I was actually really
Speaker:Elaine: surprised because I was like,
Speaker:Elaine: Rascal Flatts?
Speaker:Elaine: And I thought about it.
Speaker:Elaine: I'm like, eh, that actually makes sense, from a feel
Speaker:Elaine: perspective, because it does have a little bit of a country
Speaker:Elaine: feel to it, I'd say.
Speaker:Elaine: And
Speaker:Trist: Yeah.
Speaker:Elaine: the instrumentation was very
Speaker:Elaine: similar to what I've heard from
Speaker:Elaine: them before.
Speaker:Trist: Sure.
Speaker:Elaine: And so yeah, but I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute.
Speaker:Elaine: Rascal Flatts with India.Arie
Speaker:Elaine: like, huh, this is a crossover
Speaker:Elaine: that I didn't know we needed.
Speaker:Elaine: And
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: so it was surprising from that perspective.
Speaker:Elaine: One of the other things that I
Speaker:Elaine: listened to and that really
Speaker:Elaine: delighted me was the chord
Speaker:Elaine: progression, because
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: it wasn't typical country.
Speaker:Elaine: It wasn't typical even pop, because you had all of these
Speaker:Elaine: different really creative changes in key and tone and I was
Speaker:Elaine: like, oh, now we're back in the original key. Oh,
Speaker:Elaine: now we're in this other key. And
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: it didn't sound very forced, but it was repetitive.
Speaker:Trist: Yep.
Speaker:Elaine: Right.
Speaker:Elaine: So it was
Speaker:Trist: Yep.
Speaker:Elaine: one of those things that I was really interested in hearing and
Speaker:Elaine: listening to again.
Speaker:Trist: The changes are great.
Speaker:Trist: I think you described it well, they're different, but not
Speaker:Trist: difficult to listen to.
Speaker:Trist: They're not trying to be weird, they're just kind of of quirky
Speaker:Trist: and delightful, I think.
Speaker:Trist: I really enjoy the chord progression of this tune.
Speaker:Elaine: Can you talk a little bit more about the orchestration, because
Speaker:Elaine: you had talked a little bit about that at the very beginning
Speaker:Elaine: of why you chose this song.
Speaker:Elaine: But there's
Speaker:Trist: Yeah,
Speaker:Elaine: a little bit more in there too, right?
Speaker:Trist: Well of course, it's like acoustic instruments.
Speaker:Trist: There's like some acoustic guitar.
Speaker:Trist: There's some fiddles, mandolin, kind of bluegrassy.
Speaker:Trist: Again, a little bit more of a texture of like what a Rascal
Speaker:Trist: Flatts tune might have.
Speaker:Trist: It almost feels like it could be
Speaker:Trist: on their album and she's a
Speaker:Trist: guest.
Speaker:Trist: Other than the fact that she's
Speaker:Trist: carrying the whole lead, and she
Speaker:Trist: wrote it, and it's her song, and
Speaker:Trist: it's on her album, but it feels
Speaker:Trist: like it fits a lot more of their
Speaker:Trist: music even than hers, in some
Speaker:Trist: ways.
Speaker:Trist: And also kind of cool that the
Speaker:Trist: upright bass that you hear on it
Speaker:Trist: is Victor Wooten from Bela Fleck
Speaker:Trist: and the Flecktones, which is a
Speaker:Trist: candidate definitely for an
Speaker:Trist: episode.
Speaker:Trist: I've thought about having them so frequently that I had to try
Speaker:Trist: to remember if I've chosen a song of theirs or not yet.
Speaker:Trist: But we'll have to wait for that.
Speaker:Elaine: I definitely saw his name on this and was like, why does he
Speaker:Elaine: sound so familiar?
Speaker:Elaine: And then I looked him up and I was like, oh, that's why.
Speaker:Elaine: Because
Speaker:Trist: And it's.
Speaker:Trist: And
Speaker:Elaine: he's
Speaker:Trist: it's not to.
Speaker:Elaine: an OG.
Speaker:Trist: And he's not too frequently playing upright.
Speaker:Trist: He's incredibly well known for his antics on the electric bass,
Speaker:Trist: and he's incredible at that.
Speaker:Trist: But occasionally you will see a session or something that he's
Speaker:Trist: on that he's playing upright.
Speaker:Elaine: And I think it was very understated, his role as a
Speaker:Elaine: bassist because my perspective of bassists is that they play
Speaker:Elaine: such a supporting role and such a foundational role in music
Speaker:Elaine: that a lot of the bassists that I know just have no ego when it
Speaker:Elaine: comes to what they're playing.
Speaker:Elaine: They don't have to be the most awesome, like, I'm going to do
Speaker:Elaine: all the things in all of the music, but he does play what is
Speaker:Elaine: appropriate for the song.
Speaker:Elaine: And so I think in this one, I definitely heard a lot more of
Speaker:Elaine: that where it was like, okay, he is supporting the voice, that
Speaker:Elaine: he's supporting the music, he's supporting all of this stuff,
Speaker:Elaine: but it is not front and center.
Speaker:Elaine: Like it is not a Victor Wooten song with,
Speaker:Trist: Well. Yeah.
Speaker:Elaine: you know, that happens to have some vocals on it or happens
Speaker:Trist: Yeah.
Speaker:Elaine: to have some other acoustic instruments on it.
Speaker:Trist: Well, when he's going into a
Speaker:Trist: session like that, what does the
Speaker:Trist: track require?
Speaker:Trist: I'm hired to come and do this thing.
Speaker:Trist: Oh they wanted to play an upright.
Speaker:Trist: Here's the feel.
Speaker:Trist: Do this.
Speaker:Trist: They're probably not asking him to do anything that makes sure
Speaker:Trist: it's got your flavor on it or feels like you in your playing.
Speaker:Trist: The fact that it's upright already makes it not necessarily
Speaker:Trist: sound like him.
Speaker:Trist: You might only notice the tone of it being Victor over someone
Speaker:Trist: else If he's playing electric.
Speaker:Trist: And that's just because you get used to the whole set of
Speaker:Trist: electronics that he runs through normally, like, oh, 90% of
Speaker:Trist: things he records sounds like this because he uses that pedal
Speaker:Trist: and that thing and that compressor and all the stuff
Speaker:Trist: that he runs it through.
Speaker:Trist: So people who are tuned in to that, even if he's not being
Speaker:Trist: showy, you might hear him say, oh, it kind of sounds like the
Speaker:Trist: way that Victor Wooten plays.
Speaker:Trist: Session players like that, even if they're a big name, most of
Speaker:Trist: the really good ones know, well, I'm here to do this role.
Speaker:Trist: Unless I'm told, hey, play that
Speaker:Trist: thing that you kind of do on
Speaker:Trist: that one song that everybody
Speaker:Trist: knows.
Speaker:Trist: Unless you're asked to do
Speaker:Trist: something like that, you're
Speaker:Trist: really there just to lay down a
Speaker:Trist: track and support whatever the
Speaker:Trist: quote unquote important thing
Speaker:Trist: is.
Speaker:Trist: So yeah, foundationally, his
Speaker:Trist: whole role would be not to be
Speaker:Trist: any different, just play what's
Speaker:Trist: needed.
Speaker:Elaine: I appreciate that, especially as someone who is a supporting
Speaker:Elaine: instrumentalist, and my entire job is just to be a support as
Speaker:Elaine: opposed to standing out.
Speaker:Trist: Sure.
Speaker:Elaine: So there were certain things that I heard in the song that
Speaker:Elaine: I'd love to talk about.
Speaker:Elaine: And these are what I would label as quote unquote moments.
Speaker:Trist: Okay.
Speaker:Elaine: So for instance, there was a break, I think probably two
Speaker:Elaine: thirds of the way the song where all of the instruments cut out.
Speaker:Elaine: And then there were just a
Speaker:Elaine: couple of voices in there
Speaker:Elaine: singing.
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah.
Speaker:Elaine: And earlier on, there were a couple of moments where you'd
Speaker:Elaine: have a little bit of a pop of a violin or a little twiddle on a
Speaker:Elaine: single string on your
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: guitar or a mandolin, whatever it was.
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: Um, can you talk a little bit
Speaker:Elaine: about what kinds of things that
Speaker:Elaine: you heard in addition to that,
Speaker:Elaine: that were maybe highlights of an
Speaker:Elaine: instrument or something that
Speaker:Elaine: just kept our interest or kept
Speaker:Elaine: your interest?
Speaker:Trist: Especially on a song like this, that is simple.
Speaker:Trist: No one's really stepping out and doing anything.
Speaker:Trist: So that's the key is little subtle parts like, oh, I have
Speaker:Trist: this little thing.
Speaker:Trist: So sometimes they might not have even played it out.
Speaker:Trist: Maybe in the mix, someone just brings it up.
Speaker:Trist: Or they just thought, oh, this is a little moment.
Speaker:Trist: I have this little line and it comes in between the vocal, very
Speaker:Trist: natural musical instinct would be to, oh, I'm gonna amplify
Speaker:Trist: this little arpeggio that I play, since it's in between
Speaker:Trist: these two lines of vocals.
Speaker:Trist: Very natural, usually, for the
Speaker:Trist: accompanying musicians to do
Speaker:Trist: that.
Speaker:Trist: I think a moment, that sticks
Speaker:Trist: out to me is the end of the
Speaker:Trist: bridge.
Speaker:Trist: I love it because it just stops.
Speaker:Trist: It's kind of moving.
Speaker:Trist: And when I'm hearing the bridge go, I feel like there's like two
Speaker:Trist: more lines and it's just like, *sings* in the spring, *sings some more*
Speaker:Trist: we're back. Like, just
Speaker:Trist: kidding. We're not
Speaker:Trist: going to do a big full thing. I like
Speaker:Trist: that moment of that it felt like it was going to go on. And then
Speaker:Trist: it just kind of stops abruptly. I really
Speaker:Trist: like that.
Speaker:Elaine: And I think that there is that stop moment as well at the end
Speaker:Elaine: of the song, because I feel like the song doesn't end on the one.
Speaker:Elaine: And so it feels like it just
Speaker:Elaine: keeps on going, which I guess
Speaker:Elaine: given the fact that it's talking
Speaker:Elaine: about seasons, really is
Speaker:Elaine: apropos.
Speaker:Elaine: I wrote down that it ends on half a thought because I just
Speaker:Elaine: felt like the musical thought wasn't finished at that point in
Speaker:Elaine: time, but it just kind of ended on this five.
Speaker:Elaine: And it was like, okay, if you just repeated the entire song,
Speaker:Elaine: it probably would still work, which I guess in the context of
Speaker:Elaine: seasons makes sense.
Speaker:Trist: Yeah, I'm remembering that part.
Speaker:Trist: I remember the first time I was like, oh, I guess they're done
Speaker:Trist: with the bridge.
Speaker:Trist: They didn't need any more.
Speaker:Elaine: That was the end of the song.
Speaker:Elaine: And so I'm like, okay, I guess you're done.
Speaker:Trist: Oh yeah.
Speaker:Trist: At the end as well.
Speaker:Trist: Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker:Elaine: Well, let's switch it up and
Speaker:Elaine: talk a little bit about the
Speaker:Elaine: lyrics because you said that
Speaker:Elaine: India.Arie
Speaker:Elaine: had actually written this song. I'd
Speaker:Elaine: love to hear what you think about the lyrics
Speaker:Trist: Um.
Speaker:Elaine: first, because I know that I tend to go first a lot.
Speaker:Trist: I don't even recall exactly.
Speaker:Trist: I know this is a co-write, so there are, I think, two or three
Speaker:Trist: writers listed as songwriters.
Speaker:Trist: And I don't necessarily know who did the lyrics, but, as is kind
Speaker:Trist: of usual, I think the reason, why you tend to talk about them
Speaker:Trist: a lot is you pay a lot more attention to them than I do.
Speaker:Trist: I don't absolutely ignore them, but I'm so caught up on this
Speaker:Trist: song in the vibe and everything we've talked about so far.
Speaker:Trist: I'm actually looking for you to enlighten me to what you found
Speaker:Trist: in the lyrics.
Speaker:Elaine: So I was definitely looking at this from, you know, the context
Speaker:Elaine: of the seasons because obviously she mentions all four seasons in
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: order in
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: this particular song.
Speaker:Elaine: But I was trying to figure out,
Speaker:Elaine: and I don't think that I had a
Speaker:Elaine: really clear answer to this as
Speaker:Elaine: to how many characters there
Speaker:Elaine: were.
Speaker:Elaine: Because there was, first of all,
Speaker:Elaine: the anthropomorphizing of the
Speaker:Elaine: season.
Speaker:Elaine: So, one for each.
Speaker:Elaine: She talks directly to each one of the seasons.
Speaker:Elaine: She says
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: goodbye, Summer.
Speaker:Elaine: She talks about hello, Winter.
Speaker:Elaine: And there's some description
Speaker:Elaine: about other characters in this,
Speaker:Elaine: but then she talks about this
Speaker:Elaine: other person.
Speaker:Elaine: And I
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: can't tell whether this person is actually the same.
Speaker:Elaine: Like, oh, I love summer and the summer, we're saying goodbye or
Speaker:Elaine: whether it's actually like a physical person, because at the
Speaker:Elaine: end of the song, she talks about a kiss from my old friend.
Speaker:Elaine: Been such a long time.
Speaker:Elaine: Tell me how you've been.
Speaker:Elaine: So I think that one way to read it is she's anthropomorphizing
Speaker:Elaine: Summer as her friend.
Speaker:Elaine: And she loves being with this friend.
Speaker:Elaine: And then this friend goes away.
Speaker:Trist: Totally.
Speaker:Elaine: And so as
Speaker:Trist: Yeah.
Speaker:Elaine: the friend comes back, it's like, hey, welcome back again.
Speaker:Elaine: And so that march of the season, it could be that level.
Speaker:Elaine: And as I was running through the alternatives here, one of the
Speaker:Elaine: things that I thought of was like, well, maybe it's actually
Speaker:Elaine: a person that she only sees in the summer and that's why she
Speaker:Elaine: likes summer so much.
Speaker:Trist: Mm!
Speaker:Elaine: She's saying, hello, Summer.
Speaker:Elaine: Look, here's my lover in the
Speaker:Elaine: first time and maybe things have
Speaker:Elaine: gone south or maybe there's just
Speaker:Elaine: distance and this person comes
Speaker:Elaine: back next summer College friend,
Speaker:Elaine: whatever.
Speaker:Elaine: And it's like, oh, now we're old
Speaker:Elaine: friends as opposed to having
Speaker:Elaine: this intimate relationship the
Speaker:Elaine: first time.
Speaker:Elaine: That might be a little bit more of a stretch, but I was just
Speaker:Elaine: thinking through some of the alternative interpretations here
Speaker:Elaine: because it talks about "we."
Speaker:Elaine: I think I might be talking myself into this a little bit,
Speaker:Elaine: but maybe it's just as simple as, hey, we were holding hands
Speaker:Elaine: in June because we are friends or because I love you so much.
Speaker:Elaine: And it's just a very clear,
Speaker:Elaine: light hearted relationship to
Speaker:Elaine: the seasons.
Speaker:Elaine: A couple of other things that I
Speaker:Elaine: thought were really interesting
Speaker:Elaine: was the description that she had
Speaker:Elaine: around each one of the seasons,
Speaker:Elaine: where she talked about summer to
Speaker:Elaine: the autumn wind, to frozen in
Speaker:Elaine: this place, which she refers to
Speaker:Elaine: multiple times, whether it's
Speaker:Elaine: anticipating winter or frozen in
Speaker:Elaine: this place, exiting winter as
Speaker:Elaine: well.
Speaker:Elaine: And during winter, watching the swirling snow.
Speaker:Elaine: There are these different
Speaker:Elaine: experiences that she paints as a
Speaker:Elaine: part of experiencing each one of
Speaker:Elaine: these seasons that isn't as good
Speaker:Elaine: as summer.
Speaker:Elaine: So that leads back into the summer after going through all
Speaker:Elaine: of the seasons.
Speaker:Elaine: So I just thought it was cute from that perspective.
Speaker:Elaine: And maybe
Speaker:Trist: Hm!
Speaker:Elaine: having talked myself around it a little bit, I would go back to
Speaker:Elaine: my original thing, which is like, it's not that deep.
Speaker:Elaine: It's just a description of the
Speaker:Elaine: seasons and how much she really
Speaker:Elaine: likes summer
Speaker:Trist: Right.
Speaker:Elaine: as
Speaker:Trist: See?
Speaker:Trist: And
Speaker:Elaine: opposed
Speaker:Trist: that's
Speaker:Elaine: to
Speaker:Trist: why.
Speaker:Elaine: something yet.
Speaker:Trist: And that's why I ask you what you think about them.
Speaker:Trist: Because I wouldn't have thought any of those things.
Speaker:Elaine: The reason I got really confused is because she says at the end
Speaker:Elaine: of "hello, summer," at the end of the song, "So lonely now."
Speaker:Elaine: I'm like, why does she say she's so lonely now?
Speaker:Elaine: Summer's back.
Speaker:Elaine: Isn't Summer her friend?
Speaker:Elaine: And that's, I think, where I was confused.
Speaker:Elaine: So yeah, I don't have an answer
Speaker:Elaine: for that, but I at least thought
Speaker:Elaine: through it.
Speaker:Trist: Awesome. That's great.
Speaker:Trist: That's cool.
Speaker:Elaine: Anything else you want to say before we wrap up the section?
Speaker:Trist: No, I mean, that's it.
Speaker:Elaine: All right.
Speaker:Elaine: So with that, we are moving on to our next segment, which is?
Speaker:Trist: Mailbag.
Speaker:Elaine: That's right.
Speaker:Elaine: The mailbag.
Speaker:Elaine: And if you would like to to get
Speaker:Elaine: ahold of us, you can email us at
Speaker:Elaine: themusiciansloupe@gmail.com,
Speaker:Elaine: that is L o u p e. Or you can
Speaker:Elaine: message us on either Instagram
Speaker:Elaine: or Threads at
Speaker:Elaine: @themusiciansloupe.
Speaker:Trist: Please use that to let us know your thoughts about the song
Speaker:Trist: this week, or maybe correct us or add some information that
Speaker:Trist: maybe you know about that we did not include in the episode.
Speaker:Elaine: So this week's mailbag is from Michelle Young, also known as
Speaker:Elaine: @michelle.in.flow on Threads.
Speaker:Elaine: And she writes in May of 2026, "Dear musical artists, it has
Speaker:Elaine: come to my attention that many of you do not know certain
Speaker:Elaine: industry standard terms.
Speaker:Elaine: Here are a few that will be helpful if you're trying to book
Speaker:Elaine: shows and industry showcases."
Speaker:Elaine: And over the next couple of threads she actually talks about
Speaker:Elaine: a number of them, such as draw, like what's your draw?
Speaker:Elaine: What's your input list?
Speaker:Elaine: What's your stage plot, what's your rider, etc. And so I am
Speaker:Elaine: really curious, what types of industry terms do you think
Speaker:Elaine: people need to know as they're getting into the music industry?
Speaker:Trist: I would say what's more important than the terms are the
Speaker:Trist: things that the terms describe, if that makes sense.
Speaker:Trist: For example, I'm extrapolating a
Speaker:Trist: little bit, but I remember, for
Speaker:Trist: me and several of my friends our
Speaker:Trist: whole life from music school,
Speaker:Trist: what I learned, I would hear
Speaker:Trist: someone talk about, oh, there's
Speaker:Trist: this song that I heard on the
Speaker:Trist: radio.
Speaker:Trist: I have this recording of a song.
Speaker:Trist: If someone asks you to have that
Speaker:Trist: music be written down on paper
Speaker:Trist: for them, that would be just a
Speaker:Trist: "transcription."
Speaker:Trist: Some people call it a "lift."
Speaker:Trist: When I moved to Los Angeles, I overheard a couple friends of
Speaker:Trist: mine who had just moved, and they talked about the fact that
Speaker:Trist: in Los Angeles they would often hear that called a "take down"
Speaker:Trist: and they were joking about, "Yeah, when I moved, I had this
Speaker:Trist: gal that asked me if I would do some take downs of her songs,
Speaker:Trist: and I thought she wanted me to make the keys lower."
Speaker:Trist: So
Speaker:Elaine: That's
Speaker:Trist: that's
Speaker:Elaine: amazing.
Speaker:Trist: a, that's an instance where, just knowing that that was the
Speaker:Trist: term for doing a transcription, doing a lift, like writing a
Speaker:Trist: chart for somebody, there's the music, but then someone wants to
Speaker:Trist: read a sheet of music.
Speaker:Trist: Will you transcribe it for me, do a transcription.
Speaker:Trist: There's lots of different terms that, maybe when you moved to
Speaker:Trist: New York, there's a different term that more people use.
Speaker:Trist: So sometimes there are terms that just differ by the type of
Speaker:Trist: music you're in or the geographical area you live in.
Speaker:Trist: Maybe you go to Australia and
Speaker:Trist: someone that does the same thing
Speaker:Trist: calls it something else, and
Speaker:Trist: with their awesome accent, but
Speaker:Trist: it's more important to have that
Speaker:Trist: skill of being able to do the
Speaker:Trist: thing.
Speaker:Trist: So if you move to LA and you
Speaker:Trist: want to do that kind of work,
Speaker:Trist: but you're not good at doing the
Speaker:Trist: actual work, well, that's the
Speaker:Trist: problem.
Speaker:Trist: Not understanding that "take down" means what it means isn't
Speaker:Trist: really a problem.
Speaker:Trist: It's like a funny thing you can
Speaker:Trist: chuckle about and you talk it
Speaker:Trist: through, be strong enough to be
Speaker:Trist: like, "Okay.
Speaker:Trist: I have to admit, you keep saying
Speaker:Trist: this word 'take down.' When I
Speaker:Trist: hear that, I hear that you want
Speaker:Trist: me to transpose something into a
Speaker:Trist: lower key."
Speaker:Trist: And then they'll probably just shrug, "Oh no, no, no, no, I
Speaker:Trist: mean, I just have a recording and I want you to write down."
Speaker:Trist: "Oh, okay.
Speaker:Trist: That's what you mean."
Speaker:Trist: Right?
Speaker:Trist: Sometimes it's just negotiating,
Speaker:Trist: learning, "Oh, that's what that
Speaker:Trist: term means."
Speaker:Trist: So more importantly is to have that skill, if that's a thing
Speaker:Trist: that you want to do.
Speaker:Trist: This person is presenting, there are certain things at a showcase
Speaker:Trist: that you will want to do.
Speaker:Trist: You'll want to have those certain chunks of information.
Speaker:Trist: And maybe you've always called it one thing and someone calls
Speaker:Trist: it something else.
Speaker:Trist: It's not important to always know exactly the term.
Speaker:Trist: It's more important to just have
Speaker:Trist: your ducks in a row, have your
Speaker:Trist: stuff together, have promotion
Speaker:Trist: for them.
Speaker:Trist: Here's a list of all the places we've played.
Speaker:Trist: Here's our input list.
Speaker:Trist: Here's how many people we usually take on stage.
Speaker:Trist: Here's how much our shows usually are.
Speaker:Trist: This is how much it costs if you do this.
Speaker:Trist: All that stuff.
Speaker:Trist: So having those things are more
Speaker:Trist: important than the terms of
Speaker:Trist: them.
Speaker:Elaine: That's fair to say.
Speaker:Elaine: And one of the things that she put as a caveat at the end of
Speaker:Elaine: this thread was that, she's worked in tour management,
Speaker:Elaine: booking, PR, and consulting.
Speaker:Elaine: And so I think a lot of this comes from musicians that are
Speaker:Elaine: just starting out, not understanding a typical type of
Speaker:Elaine: lingo that is used pretty standardly across stages.
Speaker:Elaine: And
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: I will say that to your point, there are a lot of things that I
Speaker:Elaine: would say in certain contexts that don't even make sense.
Speaker:Elaine: Like some of the things that I learned from other a cappella
Speaker:Elaine: artists back when I was in my 20s, when I went to play
Speaker:Elaine: primarily with instrumentalists or people who had worked in
Speaker:Elaine: jazz, that was a completely different set of words.
Speaker:Elaine: I'm like, oh, where did these words come from?
Speaker:Elaine: I guess I understand, but like,
Speaker:Elaine: whoa, that was not what I
Speaker:Elaine: expected.
Speaker:Elaine: And
Speaker:Trist: Yeah.
Speaker:Elaine: then again, other people who have played more R&B, they will
Speaker:Elaine: come in with specific ways of talking about things that I
Speaker:Elaine: think are different than what I was used to, and having a
Speaker:Elaine: standard set of language and knowing how to translate between
Speaker:Elaine: them in your head is important, and also knowing when to stop
Speaker:Elaine: and ask, like you
Speaker:Trist: Yes.
Speaker:Elaine: were saying and
Speaker:Trist: Yeah, that's
Speaker:Elaine: saying,
Speaker:Trist: the key.
Speaker:Elaine: Oh, this is what I'm thinking when you say these words.
Speaker:Elaine: Is that what you mean?
Speaker:Trist: That's the biggest thing.
Speaker:Trist: Just being strong enough to not,
Speaker:Trist: "Wait, they keep saying that
Speaker:Trist: term and I'm not sure," just to
Speaker:Trist: be strong enough to be like,
Speaker:Trist: wait, listen, I just have to say
Speaker:Trist: this is weird, but when you say
Speaker:Trist: it that way, I don't understand,
Speaker:Trist: I've never heard it put that
Speaker:Trist: way.
Speaker:Trist: So maybe it's because of where
Speaker:Trist: I'm from or, you know, making
Speaker:Trist: light of it, figuring out the
Speaker:Trist: way that you deal with such a
Speaker:Trist: situation.
Speaker:Trist: Plus, generally whoever you're asking is going to be thrilled
Speaker:Trist: that you didn't just let it go by not knowing the information.
Speaker:Trist: They'd much rather have you stop them and find out what it is
Speaker:Trist: you're asking than just let it go because you feel too small to
Speaker:Trist: get the description of the term, what they mean.
Speaker:Elaine: I think a lot of times ego gets
Speaker:Elaine: in the way where you're like, I
Speaker:Elaine: should know
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: this thing.
Speaker:Elaine: You know,
Speaker:Trist: Right,
Speaker:Elaine: I've been in this industry for such a long
Speaker:Trist: right.
Speaker:Elaine: time.
Speaker:Trist: They're gonna think something of
Speaker:Trist: me if I don't know what they're
Speaker:Trist: saying.
Speaker:Elaine: Exactly. And I would say the
Speaker:Elaine: corporate version of this is
Speaker:Elaine: acronyms.
Speaker:Elaine: I
Speaker:Trist: Mm.
Speaker:Elaine: work at a company that has a lot of acronyms.
Speaker:Elaine: And so we actually have a
Speaker:Elaine: website internal to my company
Speaker:Elaine: that is just a list of acronyms
Speaker:Elaine: and what they mean, because it
Speaker:Elaine: is so crazy here at this
Speaker:Elaine: company.
Speaker:Elaine: That
Speaker:Trist: MM.
Speaker:Elaine: being said, one of the things
Speaker:Elaine: that we encourage people to do
Speaker:Elaine: when they're new is just to ask,
Speaker:Elaine: and say, we're not going to
Speaker:Elaine: assume that you know anything
Speaker:Elaine: and it's not going to be any
Speaker:Elaine: ding on you if you ask the
Speaker:Elaine: question.
Speaker:Elaine: So please do ask the question.
Speaker:Elaine: And I think it's a very similar kind of situation where you have
Speaker:Elaine: to put aside your ego to make sure that communication is
Speaker:Elaine: clear, because that's much more important when it comes to your
Speaker:Elaine: playing in someone else's venue, or you're playing with another
Speaker:Elaine: group that you haven't played with before, or you're working
Speaker:Elaine: with a new PR person, or you're working with someone else, like
Speaker:Elaine: you don't necessarily have to go in like, oh, I'm a hot shot.
Speaker:Elaine: Really going in with that sense
Speaker:Elaine: of humility of, okay, let's work
Speaker:Elaine: together.
Speaker:Elaine: This is the communication that it's going to take to be able to
Speaker:Elaine: get our thing done and be okay with just taking the hit.
Speaker:Elaine: If you feel like it's a hit.
Speaker:Trist: Indeed.
Speaker:Elaine: All right.
Speaker:Elaine: Well, is there anything else that you want to say about this?
Speaker:Elaine: Any other terms that you think we should know?
Speaker:Trist: None off the top of my head.
Speaker:Trist: That was the first one that I
Speaker:Trist: thought of when you brought up
Speaker:Trist: this topic.
Speaker:Trist: So we're
Speaker:Elaine: All
Speaker:Trist: good.
Speaker:Elaine: right.
Speaker:Elaine: So with that, we're going to wrap up this episode.
Speaker:Elaine: But before we do, we want to encourage you to share an
Speaker:Elaine: episode with a friend.
Speaker:Elaine: We know that you all are music
Speaker:Elaine: lovers, and if you listen this
Speaker:Elaine: long through this episode, we
Speaker:Elaine: know that you absolutely love
Speaker:Elaine: music.
Speaker:Elaine: And we also know that you know
Speaker:Elaine: other music lovers, so please do
Speaker:Elaine: share an episode, this one or
Speaker:Elaine: one of the other ones from this
Speaker:Elaine: season or last season with a
Speaker:Elaine: friend.
Speaker:Trist: And also, maybe you don't want to decide for them what they
Speaker:Trist: might be interested in.
Speaker:Trist: And we do have playlists, so there is playlists available of
Speaker:Trist: the entire first season.
Speaker:Trist: Please feel free to share that.
Speaker:Trist: Let your friends see the variety of things we talk about.
Speaker:Trist: If something strikes them and they want to check out an
Speaker:Trist: episode where we ramble on about a particular song, great.
Speaker:Trist: If not, you're sharing a pretty eclectic playlist.
Speaker:Trist: I like to think it's a pretty good drive time playlist.
Speaker:Trist: There's a lot of variety on it.
Speaker:Elaine: So with that, thank you so much for joining us this week and we
Speaker:Elaine: will see you next week.
Speaker:Trist: See you soon.
Speaker:Elaine: Ready?
Speaker:Trist: I'm going to do this all over again.
Speaker:Elaine: can I, can I say that?
Speaker:Elaine: No, that one's too depressing
