Pentatonic melody, chromatic tension, and Carnaval: Um Canto de Afoxé Para o Bloco do Ilê (Caetano Veloso)

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Elaine: Hey, Trist, what do we have this week?

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Trist: This week we are switching it up

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Trist: into something that's in

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Trist: Portuguese, some Brazilian

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Trist: music, a great Brazilian singer,

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Trist: composer activist Caetano

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Trist: Veloso.

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Elaine: Oh, okay.

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Elaine: This

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Trist: And.

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Elaine: is interesting for me because I do speak Brazilian Portuguese as

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Elaine: my fourth language.

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Trist: Oh.

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Elaine: Uh, so somewhat familiar, but

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Elaine: going back to my college days

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Elaine: now.

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Trist: Excellent. Okay, ladies and gentlemen.

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Trist: This episode brought to you by Elaine Chao.

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Trist: We'll see you guys at the end

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Trist: after she does all the correct

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Trist: pronunciations that I don't

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Trist: have.

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Trist: As a matter of fact, the full

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Trist: length of the song title, I'm

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Trist: not even going to try to say,

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Trist: because generally the song title

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Trist: is pretty commonly called "Ilê

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Trist: Aiyê."

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Elaine: Okay.

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Trist: And that's kind of a nickname for it.

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Trist: Maybe you could give us the name of this full title that I've

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Trist: shown you here.

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Elaine: Okay. So reading off the page here, this is "Um Canto de Afoxê

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Elaine: Para o Bloco do Ilê."

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Trist: Beautiful. Like I said "Ilê Aiyê."

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Elaine: So before we get into listening

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Elaine: to the song, can you remind us

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Elaine: how we should be listening to

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Elaine: music as a part of The

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Elaine: Musician's Loupe?

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Trist: We here at The Loupe like you to take a moment if you can, just

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Trist: to remind you that you do own some nicer headphones that are

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Trist: up in the closet that you keep away from the kids because

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Trist: they're so expensive.

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Trist: Pull those suckers out every once in a while and use them.

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Trist: Get in your good listening room for a change.

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Trist: We're thrilled to have you, no

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Trist: matter where you're listening

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Trist: from, your car, your jog, your

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Trist: walk, whatever.

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Trist: So, it's not a big deal either way.

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Trist: We just like to encourage some better listening environments if

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Trist: you have a moment to do so.

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Elaine: So we're going to leave links to the songs in the show notes.

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Elaine: Take a pause, listen to the song two or three times and we will

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Elaine: be right back.

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Elaine: And we're back.

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Elaine: Okay. So when you said Brazilian.

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Elaine: I kind of expected bossa nova or

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Trist: Mhm.

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Elaine: some of the other types of things, but this was definitely

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Elaine: what I would consider like classic Brazilian music, not

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Elaine: just like I said, bossa nova or samba or something like that.

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Trist: Write a little more Carnaval sounding, like any of the musics

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Trist: during that time, maybe.

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Elaine: I would say that that is a good characterization.

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Elaine: Can you tell me a little bit about why you chose the song?

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Trist: as is sometimes, the not deep

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Trist: theme here on The Musician's

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Trist: Loupe is just I always liked

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Trist: this one, a song I just wanted

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Trist: to share and make sure people

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Trist: knew about.

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Trist: I do find fascinating, the fact that it's basically a cappella,

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Trist: it's mostly vocals and just the drum sounds, percussion sounds,

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Trist: yet it's not a cappella forward.

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Trist: You don't leave it thinking that that piece of music was done a

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Trist: cappella with some drums.

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Trist: Describing it that way might lend your ear to think that it

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Trist: sounds like something different from what it really is.

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Trist: So I'm always fascinated by that

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Trist: and how the background choir

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Trist: group vocals really cover

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Trist: everything.

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Trist: They're really the full band.

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Trist: Even though it's not always singing harmony, any harmony,

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Trist: any chord changes we get from the music all come from the

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Trist: group vocals, which

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Elaine: Yeah,

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Trist: of course, I love.

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Elaine: yeah, I love that as well.

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Elaine: And it's interesting that you

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Elaine: said Carnaval because as I was

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Elaine: thinking about it, I was like,

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Elaine: oh yeah, I could see this on a

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Elaine: parade route.

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Elaine: I could see this as a dance song.

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Elaine: There's this medium tempo that it's keeping throughout.

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Elaine: And also there is a sense of call and response, which I feel

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Elaine: is a very African influence on our modern day music.

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Trist: Yeah. Also, I liked the fact that there's not a lot of

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Trist: different musical material throughout the piece.

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Trist: We often talk about the form and structure.

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Trist: The percussion rhythm stays

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Trist: exactly the same the entire way

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Trist: through.

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Trist: There's a few different melodies

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Trist: introduced, but like the lyrics

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Trist: are a small set of lyrics that

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Trist: are just repeated over and over

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Trist: and over.

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Trist: There are some slightly different additions of harmony

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Trist: as it progresses.

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Trist: Naturally, more different parts are added to the vocals in the

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Trist: back, and there's kind of a vamp ish theme on the way out.

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Trist: But it's not a lot of crazy differences in the form.

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Trist: So if you analyze this musically

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Trist: and was explaining it to

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Trist: someone, it might not sound all

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Trist: that appealing.

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Trist: It might sound boring or uninteresting.

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Trist: So that's another thing that's fascinating because there's kind

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Trist: of not a lot there.

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Trist: And yet it still feels full to me.

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Trist: It feels like a full musical idea.

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Trist: And not until I was starting to

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Trist: break it down did I even think

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Trist: about the fact that, oh, wow,

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Trist: there's not really a lot here

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Trist: because there's so much

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Trist: repetition.

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Trist: There's something about it that still feels complete.

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Elaine: That's interesting that you say

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Elaine: that it didn't strike you as

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Elaine: being that interesting because

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Elaine: of the repetition, whereas I

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Elaine: heard it as more of a theme and

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Elaine: variations.

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Elaine: And the interesting part for me was the variation and the

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Elaine: complexity that was introduced.

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Elaine: And I don't think I heard that

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Elaine: until maybe the second or third

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Elaine: time through.

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Elaine: The first time, I was like, okay, it's very repetitive.

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Elaine: The second time I was trying to think through, oh, where does it

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Elaine: vary based off of what I heard the first time?

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Elaine: And it wasn't until I was sitting down and actually

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Elaine: marking out, hey, this is what happens at this time code.

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Elaine: This is what happens at this

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Elaine: time code that I started to

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Elaine: realize how different every

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Elaine: section was.

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Trist: Right.

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Elaine: And that to me just proved that the changes were subtle, but

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Elaine: they were very, very distinct.

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Trist: And it's a good lesson in that

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Trist: you don't need to do a lot to

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Trist: have a growing effect, have the

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Trist: music move.

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Trist: Adding subtle, different things every time can still create this

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Trist: motion like you're growing and the music's going somewhere.

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Trist: Especially at the beginning, even just unison.

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Trist: But again, the drums are so predominant that I don't leave

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Trist: the listen feeling like it needed more or why aren't there

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Trist: more instruments here?

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Trist: It feels great.

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Trist: And side note the child's voice

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Trist: is a nine year old Moreno

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Trist: Veloso, Caetano's son who, as an

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Trist: adult, has a music career of his

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Trist: own.

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Elaine: HMM.

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Elaine: Interesting.

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Trist: Yeah.

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Elaine: Okay. I love that it stayed in the family.

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Trist: Yes. Big time.

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Elaine: Going back to what you were saying about the vocal variation

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Elaine: or the arrangement variation, I was reading a little bit more

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Elaine: about this because of course, I went down the rabbit hole.

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Elaine: One of the things that I looked

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Elaine: up was the word afoxé, because

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Elaine: it

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Trist: Mhm.

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Elaine: was not a word that I had studied learning Portuguese.

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Elaine: And as I was taking a look at

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Elaine: the article, one of the things

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Elaine: that came out was this concept

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Elaine: of the scale of five pitches,

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Elaine: which we would call a pentatonic

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Elaine: scale.

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Elaine: And so what I did after then was

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Elaine: just picked out, oh, what are

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Elaine: the actual notes that are in the

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Elaine: melody?

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Elaine: And as I was doing that, I'm like, oh yeah, that's right.

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Elaine: That is the scale of five pitches.

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Elaine: And this is why it sounds so familiar, because this

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Elaine: pentatonic scale is one that is used in a lot of different

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Elaine: Brazilian pieces of music.

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Elaine: And I

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Trist: Mhm.

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Elaine: was like, oh, that's why it sounds so familiar.

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Elaine: Okay, I got it.

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Elaine: And so I was thinking about this pentatonic scale.

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Elaine: And the interesting thing to me

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Elaine: was the introduction of the

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Elaine: chromatic.

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Elaine: So there is a point in time, I

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Elaine: think it's in the second verse

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Elaine: or so where Caetano is like

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Elaine: singing this chromatic while

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Elaine: everyone else is singing this

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Elaine: pentatonic scale.

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Elaine: And it just introduced that amount of tension.

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Elaine: It was very, very subtle.

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Elaine: And at the same time, you know, it was the primary vocalist and

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Elaine: so it stuck out because of that.

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Elaine: But that chromatic repeated itself later.

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Elaine: And so I just found it interesting to think about, this

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Elaine: very traditional pentatonic scale as a part of the melody

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Elaine: and then what the voices were doing in the background that

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Elaine: seemed so countercultural.

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Elaine: And that to me was interesting.

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Elaine: Do you know anything about that,

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Elaine: or do you have any observations

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Elaine: about that particular musical

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Elaine: tidbit?

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Trist: Mostly I just know the spot

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Trist: you're talking about, and I love

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Trist: that.

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Trist: It seems like he's singing the main melody and the main lead.

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Trist: And then just for that moment,

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Trist: it's almost as if he wasn't

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Trist: recording and he was just

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Trist: thinking to himself, it'd be

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Trist: cool if the bass part did this

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Trist: right here.

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Trist: But he happens to be recording

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Trist: and he's on the microphone where

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Trist: he's singing the lead vocal, and

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Trist: he just happens to do it out

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Trist: loud.

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Trist: It's really cool.

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Trist: It's just not something you would expect from that spot.

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Trist: again, It's almost like you're

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Trist: catching someone thinking, oh,

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Trist: it'd be cool if this happened

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Trist: and he's just singing along to

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Trist: himself.

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Trist: Who knows, maybe he was, and then they just thought it

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Trist: sounded great and kept it.

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Trist: I don't know.

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Elaine: Well, a couple of cycles later you heard the choir break out

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Elaine: into that same chromatic.

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Trist: Right, right.

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Elaine: And so that's why I thought it was intentional as, oh, the lead

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Elaine: singer is introducing this.

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Elaine: And then

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Trist: Yeah.

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Elaine: the arrangement actually breaks

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Elaine: out into this about a minute

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Elaine: later.

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Elaine: And then it goes back into

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Elaine: unison and then back into this

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Elaine: choral thing and ends in this

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Elaine: really interesting vocal

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Elaine: tension.

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Elaine: I couldn't tell whether it was a

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Elaine: tritone, but I thought maybe it

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Elaine: might be because it just sounded

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Elaine: like one.

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Trist: I just like that kind of

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Trist: non-traditional phrasing, the

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Trist: way that he sings that little

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Trist: spot.

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Trist: And then actually he stops singing the melody and the rest

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Trist: of the singers are kind of taking it over for a minute, and

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Trist: he jumps back in.

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Elaine: So let's pivot and talk a little bit about the lyrics.

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Elaine: I know that it's very repetitive.

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Elaine: I did have to copy and paste, and then I did do my own

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Elaine: translation at the same time as looking up another translation

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Elaine: saying like, hey, what does this actually mean in English?

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Elaine: Is there something in the

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Elaine: translation of the lyrics that

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Elaine: you saw?

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Elaine: This is a foreign language to you and I know that you have

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Elaine: sung in Portuguese before, but not necessarily studied it

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Elaine: academically like I did.

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Trist: Right. And actually, I have sung these exact lyrics in

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Elaine: Oh!

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Trist: Portuguese.

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Trist: I performed this one before a long time ago.

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Trist: Something that I didn't know

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Trist: back when I did that is that the

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Trist: Ilê Aiyê is kind of a tribute to

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Trist: a band.

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Trist: There was a band that was a revolutionary type musical

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Trist: output in Brazil.

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Trist: If I'm remembering this

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Trist: correctly, there was a name of a

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Trist: band that was important for

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Trist: that.

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Trist: I did not know that.

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Trist: I only knew of the phrase from this song.

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Trist: So it was cool to find that out.

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Elaine: I definitely went down the

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Elaine: rabbit hole for this one as

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Elaine: well.

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Elaine: And looked up "Ilê Aiyê," because obviously another set of

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Elaine: words that I had never studied academically in Portuguese.

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Elaine: And I thought it was fascinating

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Elaine: that this is actually a Carnaval

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Elaine: block.

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Elaine: And so thinking about a neighborhood,

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Elaine: effectively, in Salvador,

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Elaine: which is one of the cities

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Elaine: to the north, in Bahia, which

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Elaine: is one of the states in Brazil.

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Trist: Yeah.

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Elaine: And this is especially

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Elaine: interesting to me because a lot

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Elaine: of the cultural influence from

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Elaine: Brazil to the world is actually

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Elaine: out of Rio de Janeiro, even to

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Elaine: the point where people inside of

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Elaine: Brazil say, oh, the official

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Elaine: accent of Brazil is actually the

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Elaine: carioca accent or the accent

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Elaine: from Rio.

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Elaine: And so to have something so influential coming from

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Elaine: effectively a smaller city, maybe a little bit more, I don't

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Elaine: want to say in the hinterlands, but definitely to the more quote

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Elaine: unquote uncultured north, I thought was absolutely

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Elaine: interesting to bring this in.

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Elaine: And so Ilê Aiyê is this Carnaval block, and there is a group of

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Elaine: people that would gather every year called the Bloco, which you

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Elaine: can see inside of the title.

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Elaine: And so this is a group of singers.

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Elaine: They are generally Afro groups, Black or mulatto musicians.

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Elaine: And so it's actually very

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Elaine: exclusive from what I was

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Elaine: reading.

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Elaine: And so you can imagine that

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Elaine: these parties actually go on

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Elaine: from before Carnaval to after

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Elaine: Carnaval.

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Elaine: And one of the things I was

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Elaine: reading is a part of that was

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Elaine: that, specifically this

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Elaine: particular bloco was responsible

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Elaine: for a huge cultural revolution

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Elaine: in Brazil.

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Elaine: And so I was reading that, I was

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Elaine: like, oh, okay, this is really

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Elaine: interesting because the title of

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Elaine: the song is A Song of Afoxé, so

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Elaine: like a song of afoxé in this

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Elaine: style for and specifically like,

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Elaine: hey, this is written for a bloco

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Elaine: of Ilê.

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Elaine: And so as they're saying, "Ilê Aiyê"

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Elaine: multiple times, it really is

Speaker: 00:13:13

Elaine: paying tribute to this particular

Speaker: 00:13:16

Elaine: group that was so influential.

Speaker: 00:13:19

Elaine: And

Speaker: 00:13:19

Elaine: as I was studying the impact of

Speaker: 00:13:21

Elaine: this particular bloco, it was really

Speaker: 00:13:23

Elaine: talking about the reclaiming

Speaker: 00:13:25

Elaine: of standards of beauty

Speaker: 00:13:26

Elaine: specifically for Black and

Speaker: 00:13:28

Elaine: mulatto, who were often held to

Speaker: 00:13:32

Elaine: maybe more Eurocentric standards.

Speaker: 00:13:35

Elaine: And

Speaker: 00:13:35

Elaine: so this was almost like throwing off that standard of beauty

Speaker: 00:13:39

Elaine: and actually reclaiming their own sense of beauty in

Speaker: 00:13:43

Trist: MM.

Speaker: 00:13:43

Elaine: this dance and in this activity that they were participating in

Speaker: 00:13:47

Elaine: as a part of Carnaval.

Speaker: 00:13:48

Elaine: And so, I'm reading this and I'm

Speaker: 00:13:50

Elaine: quoting this directly from the

Speaker: 00:13:52

Elaine: Wikipedia article, where it said

Speaker: 00:13:55

Elaine: that "before the founding of Ilê Aiyê,

Speaker: 00:13:57

Elaine: Black men and women would never

Speaker: 00:13:59

Elaine: wear colorful dresses, would

Speaker: 00:14:01

Elaine: often not enter through the

Speaker: 00:14:02

Elaine: front door, would not wear Afro

Speaker: 00:14:04

Elaine: hairstyles, and black women would

Speaker: 00:14:05

Elaine: not use lipstick, all because

Speaker: 00:14:07

Elaine: of long standing racist stigmatization."

Speaker: 00:14:11

Elaine: And

Speaker: 00:14:11

Elaine: I'm not quoting anymore. I

Speaker: 00:14:12

Elaine: think a lot of it had to do with

Speaker: 00:14:15

Elaine: colonialism, but also the impact

Speaker: 00:14:17

Elaine: of slavery in this area of

Speaker: 00:14:20

Elaine: Brazil. So

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Elaine: I think that there is definitely

Speaker: 00:14:22

Elaine: this sense of cultural

Speaker: 00:14:23

Elaine: reclamation that Ilê Aiyê

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Elaine: had brought to this region of

Speaker: 00:14:27

Elaine: Brazil, which is why I think it's

Speaker: 00:14:30

Elaine: actually amazing that there's

Speaker: 00:14:31

Elaine: a song for this group celebrating

Speaker: 00:14:34

Elaine: the bloco, celebrating

Speaker: 00:14:36

Elaine: the work that they've

Speaker: 00:14:36

Elaine: done. And

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Elaine: as I take a look at the translation, it's "how beautiful you

Speaker: 00:14:40

Elaine: are to see. And

Speaker: 00:14:41

Elaine: the most beautiful beauty to have." It's

Speaker: 00:14:44

Elaine: the celebration of beauty that

Speaker: 00:14:46

Elaine: comes from being a part of this

Speaker: 00:14:49

Elaine: community. And

Speaker: 00:14:50

Elaine: then, the beauty transforms itself in you. And

Speaker: 00:14:54

Elaine: "Que maneira mais feliz de viver." So

Speaker: 00:14:57

Elaine: what is the happiest way to live? Just

Speaker: 00:14:59

Elaine: this exclamation of "Ah, this is amazing! What

Speaker: 00:15:02

Elaine: an amazing way to live life!" This is our community and this

Speaker: 00:15:05

Elaine: is where we can be free. And

Speaker: 00:15:07

Elaine: this is where we claim our standard of beauty and how it's not

Speaker: 00:15:12

Elaine: the same as what everyone else says it is. And

Speaker: 00:15:15

Elaine: so I can see how it's transformative and also what a celebration

Speaker: 00:15:19

Elaine: it is.

Speaker: 00:15:20

Trist: And you can hear the celebration of that in the sound of the

Speaker: 00:15:23

Trist: music and the singing.

Speaker: 00:15:25

Trist: Now as you speak of it and

Speaker: 00:15:27

Trist: translate it and talk about what

Speaker: 00:15:29

Trist: it's celebrating, you can hear

Speaker: 00:15:30

Trist: that in the music and in the

Speaker: 00:15:32

Trist: voices.

Speaker: 00:15:33

Elaine: So I wanted to wrap this up by talking a little bit about

Speaker: 00:15:36

Elaine: Candomblé, which is considered a Brazilian syncretic religion,

Speaker: 00:15:40

Elaine: and it's a synthesis between the West African gods and goddesses

Speaker: 00:15:46

Elaine: that came over with the West African slaves, that translated

Speaker: 00:15:50

Elaine: into a combination of that as well as whatever local religions

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Elaine: they might have added in with the local brand of Christianity.

Speaker: 00:15:59

Elaine: And so you will see that with

Speaker: 00:16:01

Elaine: Haitian voodoo, you'll see that

Speaker: 00:16:02

Elaine: with Santeria, and in Brazil

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Elaine: you'll see that in a system

Speaker: 00:16:06

Elaine: called Candomblé.

Speaker: 00:16:07

Elaine: And so a lot of these more African influenced songs also

Speaker: 00:16:11

Elaine: brought in elements of Candomblé into it as well.

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Elaine: You could see that in the

Speaker: 00:16:16

Elaine: musical rhythm and in some of

Speaker: 00:16:18

Elaine: the other instruments that they

Speaker: 00:16:20

Elaine: have.

Speaker: 00:16:20

Elaine: So the atabaque, the agogô, and afoxé, which is actually that

Speaker: 00:16:24

Elaine: gourd with the beads on the outside that you twist.

Speaker: 00:16:27

Trist: Mhm.

Speaker: 00:16:28

Elaine: The cabaça is

Speaker: 00:16:29

Trist: Mhm.

Speaker: 00:16:29

Elaine: is what they call it.

Speaker: 00:16:31

Elaine: And so

Speaker: 00:16:31

Trist: Yep.

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Elaine: as I think about all of that and

Speaker: 00:16:34

Elaine: how this particular song in some

Speaker: 00:16:37

Elaine: way represents all of that as

Speaker: 00:16:39

Elaine: well.

Speaker: 00:16:39

Elaine: I think it's an interesting

Speaker: 00:16:41

Elaine: window into Brazilian culture

Speaker: 00:16:44

Elaine: and specifically about the

Speaker: 00:16:46

Elaine: Afro-Brazilian culture.

Speaker: 00:16:48

Elaine: And in some ways you do hear

Speaker: 00:16:50

Elaine: some of that in samba as well,

Speaker: 00:16:52

Elaine: the rhythms that really borrow a

Speaker: 00:16:54

Elaine: lot from the West African

Speaker: 00:16:55

Elaine: culture,

Speaker: 00:16:55

Trist: Mhm.

Speaker: 00:16:56

Elaine: but not so much, I think, in bossa nova.

Speaker: 00:16:58

Elaine: I don't know, I just

Speaker: 00:16:59

Trist: Mhm.

Speaker: 00:16:59

Elaine: haven't analyzed so much.

Speaker: 00:17:01

Elaine: But we have talked in the past about the influence of African

Speaker: 00:17:05

Elaine: music in jazz, for instance, or in some of the call and response

Speaker: 00:17:10

Elaine: gospel music that we've covered here in the past.

Speaker: 00:17:14

Elaine: But, thinking about the African influence as it has come through

Speaker: 00:17:17

Elaine: Brazil with its slightly different perspective on all of

Speaker: 00:17:21

Elaine: these things, I think is an interesting view on life and

Speaker: 00:17:24

Elaine: interesting view on religion.

Speaker: 00:17:25

Elaine: Interesting view on how culture evolves in a particular region.

Speaker: 00:17:30

Trist: Indeed. Wow. Thanks.

Speaker: 00:17:32

Trist: I'm so glad that you were able to share all of that.

Speaker: 00:17:35

Elaine: And hopefully I did my Portuguese professor proud.

Speaker: 00:17:38

Elaine: Um,

Speaker: 00:17:38

Trist: I think

Speaker: 00:17:39

Elaine: yeah.

Speaker: 00:17:39

Trist: so.

Speaker: 00:17:42

Elaine: So with that, any other thoughts on this?

Speaker: 00:17:44

Trist: No, that's really it.

Speaker: 00:17:46

Trist: Well covered.

Speaker: 00:17:47

Elaine: All right.

Speaker: 00:17:48

Elaine: So with that, we are going to shift gears and move into-

Speaker: 00:17:52

Trist: The mail bag.

Speaker: 00:17:58

Elaine: That's right. The Mailbag.

Speaker: 00:18:00

Elaine: And if you would like to get

Speaker: 00:18:01

Elaine: ahold of us, you can email us at

Speaker: 00:18:03

Elaine: themusiciansloupe@gmail.com,

Speaker: 00:18:05

Elaine: that's L O U P E. Or you can

Speaker: 00:18:07

Elaine: reach us on Instagram or Threads

Speaker: 00:18:10

Elaine: @themusiciansloupe.

Speaker: 00:18:11

Trist: That would be a great place if

Speaker: 00:18:13

Trist: you have any comments or any

Speaker: 00:18:14

Trist: stories or if you want to

Speaker: 00:18:16

Trist: correct any of my

Speaker: 00:18:17

Trist: pronunciations, since I spoke so

Speaker: 00:18:19

Trist: much Portuguese on this podcast

Speaker: 00:18:22

Trist: episode.

Speaker: 00:18:22

Trist: Or if you have your idea of some

Speaker: 00:18:24

Trist: of your favorite Brazilian

Speaker: 00:18:26

Trist: artists.

Speaker: 00:18:27

Trist: That'd be a great place you could share those with us.

Speaker: 00:18:29

Elaine: So this week's Mailbag is once again from Threads.

Speaker: 00:18:32

Elaine: It is from Bill Reppas from October of 2026.

Speaker: 00:18:37

Elaine: His account name is @reppasbill.

Speaker: 00:18:40

Elaine: "Non-musicians think being a

Speaker: 00:18:43

Elaine: gigging musician is a glamorized

Speaker: 00:18:45

Elaine: lifestyle.

Speaker: 00:18:46

Elaine: They don't see the four hour drive back home at 2am, drinking

Speaker: 00:18:49

Elaine: cheap gas station coffee, counting out twenty dollars in

Speaker: 00:18:51

Elaine: gas money, and dragging gear into your house at 4am before

Speaker: 00:18:54

Elaine: waking up for work.

Speaker: 00:18:56

Elaine: Fellow musicians, what is your

Speaker: 00:18:58

Elaine: ultimate late night gig survival

Speaker: 00:19:00

Elaine: story?"

Speaker: 00:19:01

Trist: That's kind of a generalization, like extreme version of what so

Speaker: 00:19:05

Trist: many people have had to do.

Speaker: 00:19:07

Trist: Different for depending on what instruments you play, obviously,

Speaker: 00:19:11

Trist: I always think about that.

Speaker: 00:19:12

Trist: I sometimes work as an audio engineer on events, party bands,

Speaker: 00:19:17

Trist: and things like that.

Speaker: 00:19:18

Trist: And so whenever you see the musicians show up, there is

Speaker: 00:19:24

Trist: always a part of me that's like, wow, I'm glad I'm primarily a

Speaker: 00:19:28

Trist: vocalist because on those kinds of gigs, it's like show right

Speaker: 00:19:32

Trist: up, a lot of times the microphone is provided, if not,

Speaker: 00:19:35

Trist: plug in your mic, maybe set up whatever your music, if you need

Speaker: 00:19:38

Trist: it for that event, your stand or something, you're ready to go.

Speaker: 00:19:41

Trist: Even if you play like saxophone

Speaker: 00:19:42

Trist: or a horn or something, you've

Speaker: 00:19:43

Trist: got something to get out and get

Speaker: 00:19:44

Trist: ready or your guitar, you got to

Speaker: 00:19:46

Trist: set up your amps and God forbid

Speaker: 00:19:48

Trist: you play the drums and you have

Speaker: 00:19:49

Trist: to drag in and set all of that

Speaker: 00:19:51

Trist: stuff up and take it all down,

Speaker: 00:19:52

Trist: and probably getting the same

Speaker: 00:19:54

Trist: bread as someone who just had to

Speaker: 00:19:56

Trist: walk up to the mic and sing and

Speaker: 00:19:57

Trist: leave.

Speaker: 00:19:58

Trist: So there's something nice about that.

Speaker: 00:19:59

Trist: That's at kind of a different level.

Speaker: 00:20:01

Trist: But yeah, you're doing your own band.

Speaker: 00:20:02

Trist: I think without talking exactly about what Bill there said, I

Speaker: 00:20:07

Trist: think every musician has some kind of version of that where

Speaker: 00:20:12

Trist: most people think a certain thing about what I do, and yet

Speaker: 00:20:16

Trist: there's all this other stuff that goes into it.

Speaker: 00:20:18

Trist: I think that's just kind of a

Speaker: 00:20:19

Trist: generic version of everyone's

Speaker: 00:20:22

Trist: got that.

Speaker: 00:20:23

Elaine: I think that there is something

Speaker: 00:20:26

Elaine: about this for me that really

Speaker: 00:20:28

Elaine: brings up what are the panic

Speaker: 00:20:29

Elaine: moments that you experience as a

Speaker: 00:20:32

Elaine: musician?

Speaker: 00:20:33

Elaine: And for me, definitely one of them is, oh, am I underprepared?

Speaker: 00:20:37

Elaine: And that is all on me.

Speaker: 00:20:38

Elaine: Like if I have too much on my plate at that point in time, or

Speaker: 00:20:41

Elaine: I get the music really late.

Speaker: 00:20:42

Elaine: That actually happened recently where I got the music too late

Speaker: 00:20:46

Elaine: for me to rehearse.

Speaker: 00:20:48

Elaine: I had set aside time to rehearse, and I didn't get the

Speaker: 00:20:50

Elaine: music until right before.

Speaker: 00:20:51

Elaine: So I was in rehearsal sight reading the music.

Speaker: 00:20:54

Elaine: Thankfully it was easy, but it was not something that I wanted

Speaker: 00:20:57

Elaine: to be doing.

Speaker: 00:20:58

Elaine: I liked to be prepared before I go into a gig, but that

Speaker: 00:21:02

Elaine: particular one also had a bunch of things go wrong because it

Speaker: 00:21:06

Elaine: was not on our regular site, like the entire sound system had

Speaker: 00:21:09

Elaine: to be laid down.

Speaker: 00:21:10

Elaine: And we got there, we basically

Speaker: 00:21:11

Elaine: waited for an hour, we didn't

Speaker: 00:21:13

Elaine: have our soundcheck for a long

Speaker: 00:21:14

Elaine: time.

Speaker: 00:21:14

Elaine: I didn't even have a mic for the first hour and a half before

Speaker: 00:21:18

Elaine: they were like, oh, you probably need a mic.

Speaker: 00:21:20

Elaine: Okay.

Speaker: 00:21:21

Elaine: You know, the damper pedal on the keyboard I was playing was

Speaker: 00:21:24

Elaine: not the right match for it.

Speaker: 00:21:26

Elaine: And so it was inversed.

Speaker: 00:21:28

Elaine: So I didn't have

Speaker: 00:21:29

Trist: Oh,

Speaker: 00:21:29

Elaine: a

Speaker: 00:21:30

Trist: right.

Speaker: 00:21:30

Elaine: damper.

Speaker: 00:21:30

Elaine: It was one of those things where I could have sustain, but in

Speaker: 00:21:34

Elaine: order to release a sustain, I hit the pedal which

Speaker: 00:21:36

Trist: Yeah.

Speaker: 00:21:36

Elaine: is opposite to how I've trained.

Speaker: 00:21:38

Elaine: So all of these things went into

Speaker: 00:21:41

Elaine: it and I played the gig that

Speaker: 00:21:43

Elaine: way.

Speaker: 00:21:44

Elaine: But my entire job was to pretend that that was not an issue.

Speaker: 00:21:48

Elaine: And

Speaker: 00:21:48

Trist: Right.

Speaker: 00:21:48

Elaine: so, I'm playing all the things I

Speaker: 00:21:50

Elaine: just had to like be very

Speaker: 00:21:51

Elaine: conscious about when I hit the

Speaker: 00:21:52

Elaine: pedal.

Speaker: 00:21:53

Elaine: But I think those are the types

Speaker: 00:21:54

Elaine: of minor panic stories that feed

Speaker: 00:21:58

Elaine: into the tapestry of a

Speaker: 00:22:01

Elaine: musician's life in that it isn't

Speaker: 00:22:03

Elaine: all "I show up and everything is

Speaker: 00:22:05

Elaine: perfect."

Speaker: 00:22:05

Elaine: I remember one Christmas I was

Speaker: 00:22:07

Elaine: playing and all of the power

Speaker: 00:22:09

Elaine: went out in the entire block as

Speaker: 00:22:11

Elaine: I was playing in the middle of a

Speaker: 00:22:13

Elaine: Christmas service.

Speaker: 00:22:14

Elaine: Funny enough, these are also the

Speaker: 00:22:16

Elaine: war stories that as I'm sitting

Speaker: 00:22:19

Elaine: around talking to other

Speaker: 00:22:20

Elaine: musicians, these are the things

Speaker: 00:22:21

Elaine: that people bring up of, uh, ha

Speaker: 00:22:23

Elaine: ha ha, I like you remember when

Speaker: 00:22:24

Elaine: this happened or like, oh, this

Speaker: 00:22:26

Elaine: happened

Speaker: 00:22:26

Trist: Always.

Speaker: 00:22:26

Elaine: to me while I was on tour or yeah, there's one thing happened

Speaker: 00:22:29

Elaine: to me over here and like, oh, wow, that's impressive.

Speaker: 00:22:33

Elaine: I feel like those are the types

Speaker: 00:22:35

Elaine: of stories that people tell each

Speaker: 00:22:37

Elaine: other to remind each other the

Speaker: 00:22:39

Elaine: privilege of playing music

Speaker: 00:22:40

Elaine: together.

Speaker: 00:22:41

Elaine: And to ground ourselves in the,

Speaker: 00:22:44

Elaine: oh, this is sometimes a grind

Speaker: 00:22:46

Elaine: because it's a job and work is

Speaker: 00:22:49

Elaine: sometimes hard.

Speaker: 00:22:50

Trist: That's true.

Speaker: 00:22:51

Trist: Might not have covered a lot

Speaker: 00:22:53

Trist: here, but I did indeed spend

Speaker: 00:22:55

Trist: time in the group, The Manhattan

Speaker: 00:22:57

Trist: Transfer.

Speaker: 00:22:58

Trist: And it was funny whenever we'd

Speaker: 00:23:00

Trist: have story time or be on the

Speaker: 00:23:02

Trist: road hearing stories from the

Speaker: 00:23:03

Trist: group, it was always stuff like

Speaker: 00:23:05

Trist: that.

Speaker: 00:23:05

Trist: It was always the crazy thing that happened.

Speaker: 00:23:07

Trist: The most memorable oddity from a

Speaker: 00:23:10

Trist: gig, more than some incredible

Speaker: 00:23:12

Trist: moment.

Speaker: 00:23:13

Trist: There's the occasional, oh, that

Speaker: 00:23:14

Trist: time we did that thing with

Speaker: 00:23:15

Trist: Dizzy Gillespie, but even then,

Speaker: 00:23:17

Trist: almost immediately away from the

Speaker: 00:23:19

Trist: great musical experience was

Speaker: 00:23:20

Trist: like, "Yeah.

Speaker: 00:23:21

Trist: And after the show, we went to

Speaker: 00:23:22

Trist: that one club and this happened

Speaker: 00:23:24

Trist: and this happened and this

Speaker: 00:23:24

Trist: happened.

Speaker: 00:23:25

Trist: Not down at this level that our

Speaker: 00:23:27

Trist: thread comes from where it's

Speaker: 00:23:29

Trist: just like your local gig that

Speaker: 00:23:31

Trist: you have that you break down

Speaker: 00:23:32

Trist: your own stuff, even at a higher

Speaker: 00:23:34

Trist: touring level.

Speaker: 00:23:36

Trist: There are the crazy stories of "Oh, we got booked in this place

Speaker: 00:23:39

Trist: at this time.

Speaker: 00:23:40

Trist: And then in that place really far away at a time that's not

Speaker: 00:23:43

Trist: far enough away.

Speaker: 00:23:44

Trist: So there's lots of those stories

Speaker: 00:23:46

Trist: too, about what you needed to do

Speaker: 00:23:48

Trist: to get to the next gig when

Speaker: 00:23:51

Trist: someone in an office booking it

Speaker: 00:23:52

Trist: on paper thought, oh, yep,

Speaker: 00:23:54

Trist: that's possible.

Speaker: 00:23:55

Trist: I opened up the map app and it showed that you could drive from

Speaker: 00:23:58

Trist: that place to that place in this amount of time.

Speaker: 00:24:00

Trist: So what's the problem?

Speaker: 00:24:01

Trist: You guys should be good."

Speaker: 00:24:02

Trist: They didn't have to be out there on the road doing it.

Speaker: 00:24:04

Trist: So, there are those stories too.

Speaker: 00:24:06

Trist: That tends to be the stuff that musicians remember the most are

Speaker: 00:24:09

Trist: those kind of oddities.

Speaker: 00:24:10

Elaine: It's interesting to think about in my current context, because

Speaker: 00:24:14

Elaine: I'm playing at a church and there are three services, first

Speaker: 00:24:17

Elaine: service is at 8. I think a lot of people in the services do not

Speaker: 00:24:22

Elaine: recognize that we have to be there so early until they talk

Speaker: 00:24:25

Elaine: to us and they're like, oh yeah, you know, like, what time did

Speaker: 00:24:28

Elaine: you get up?

Speaker: 00:24:29

Elaine: And I'm like, well, my alarm was set for 5.

Speaker: 00:24:31

Elaine: And they were like, what, 5?!

Speaker: 00:24:33

Elaine: I'm like, yeah, I've been here

Speaker: 00:24:34

Elaine: since 6:30, because that's when

Speaker: 00:24:36

Elaine: we're supposed to show up and

Speaker: 00:24:38

Elaine: set up.

Speaker: 00:24:39

Elaine: And downbeat is just before 7.

Speaker: 00:24:41

Elaine: Telling them that story often shows to them how unglamorous

Speaker: 00:24:46

Elaine: the life is, because they just see someone on stage and they're

Speaker: 00:24:50

Elaine: like, oh, wow, you're on stage and one person even was like,

Speaker: 00:24:54

Elaine: oh, you're famous.

Speaker: 00:24:55

Elaine: I'm like, no, I just stand on a stage every week and you see me,

Speaker: 00:25:00

Elaine: so I look familiar.

Speaker: 00:25:01

Elaine: I'm not famous.

Speaker: 00:25:02

Elaine: But I think that the other thing is that they don't recognize the

Speaker: 00:25:06

Elaine: sacrifice it takes to be able to do that week by week, whether

Speaker: 00:25:10

Elaine: it's the sacrifice of the sleep.

Speaker: 00:25:12

Elaine: And so the impact on my body or

Speaker: 00:25:14

Elaine: the sacrifice of not doing

Speaker: 00:25:16

Elaine: something on Saturday night so

Speaker: 00:25:17

Elaine: that I can go to bed early

Speaker: 00:25:18

Elaine: enough to get up early to play

Speaker: 00:25:20

Elaine: on Sunday, which I do gladly, I

Speaker: 00:25:22

Elaine: will say.

Speaker: 00:25:22

Elaine: It's not a sacrifice for me to do that.

Speaker: 00:25:24

Elaine: I will just give up my Saturday night, set boundaries, try to

Speaker: 00:25:27

Elaine: get as much sleep as I can.

Speaker: 00:25:29

Elaine: And I am not a morning person, so this is doubly hard for me.

Speaker: 00:25:32

Elaine: If someone were a morning bird,

Speaker: 00:25:34

Elaine: it's like, "Oh yeah, I get up at

Speaker: 00:25:35

Elaine: 4:30 every day!" I'm not that

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Elaine: person.

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Elaine: I am a person who is very happy sleeping in until 8 or 9.

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Elaine: And so I think about that and I

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Elaine: think a lot of people see the

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Elaine: musicians, they see the joy that

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Elaine: we bring, which I think is our

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Elaine: greatest gift.

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Elaine: And at the same time, they don't see the work that goes into it.

Speaker: 00:25:54

Elaine: And

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Trist: Right?

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Elaine: I think that that's a part of the story that we can tell as

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Elaine: musicians to help build that empathy and also to maybe take a

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Elaine: little bit of the shine off of things, because I think that

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Elaine: people fall too easily into a certain glorification into

Speaker: 00:26:09

Elaine: people who are on stage.

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Trist: A common phrase you'll hear among touring working musicians.

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Trist: Kind of a phrase along the lines

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Trist: of, "Oh, we do the gigs for

Speaker: 00:26:18

Trist: free.

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Trist: You pay me to get from one to the other" or, football.

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Trist: Pro football players have been known to say that.

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Trist: It's like, oh, I'll give you Sundays for free.

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Trist: You just got to pay me from Monday through Saturday to get

Speaker: 00:26:30

Trist: my body ready to do that game of car crashes again.

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Trist: Sunday's great.

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Trist: It's just the in between is what I get paid for.

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Trist: Or something like that, the joy of it.

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Trist: I would do the game for free.

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Trist: It's just all the preparation

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Trist: that I want to make a lot of

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Trist: money for.

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Trist: Musicians like that too.

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Trist: I know on the road all the time

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Trist: we would say that, oh, you just

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Trist: pay for the travel, but we would

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Trist: do the gigs for free if we

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Trist: could.

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Elaine: Some of the people who I play

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Elaine: with have been full time touring

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Elaine: musicians in the past, and so

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Elaine: occasionally we'll have these

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Elaine: conversations about life on the

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Elaine: road and those of us who haven't

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Elaine: been on the road who are working

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Elaine: day jobs and are musicians are

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Elaine: listening along.

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Elaine: And one of my friends, I just remember very distinctly saying,

Speaker: 00:27:08

Elaine: wow, you guys are not painting a good light on touring.

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Elaine: And they they just looked at him

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Elaine: and they were like, what makes

Speaker: 00:27:15

Elaine: you think that this is a good

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Elaine: life?

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Elaine: Um,

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Trist: Right?

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Elaine: but I mean, there's a lot of advantages.

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Elaine: And I think you and I have both

Speaker: 00:27:21

Elaine: talked about the joys of touring

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Elaine: and the joys of traveling and

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Elaine: the advantages that it gives

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Elaine: you, and at the same time, how

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Elaine: hard it can be on your body and

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Elaine: how hard it can be just in

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Elaine: general, if you're touring and

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Elaine: it is a brutal travel schedule

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Elaine: as opposed to maybe a more

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Elaine: luxurious type of travel, or

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Elaine: where you're staying in the same

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Elaine: place for a couple of days or

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Elaine: residency or something like

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Elaine: that.

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Trist: Indeed. Well, Bill, sorry I

Speaker: 00:27:46

Trist: didn't give you a ultimate late

Speaker: 00:27:48

Trist: night gig survival story, but

Speaker: 00:27:51

Trist: still a good thread to bring up

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Trist: conversation about the less

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Trist: glamorous parts of the music

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Trist: life.

Speaker: 00:27:58

Elaine: All right.

Speaker: 00:27:59

Elaine: Any last thoughts?

Speaker: 00:28:00

Trist: I think we got it.

Speaker: 00:28:01

Elaine: Okay. So with that, we're going to wrap up for the week.

Speaker: 00:28:05

Elaine: But before we leave you, we would love for you to share a

Speaker: 00:28:08

Elaine: playlist because we have two playlists to share with you.

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Trist: One from each season.

Speaker: 00:28:13

Trist: So they make great playlists.

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Trist: Even if you have friends that maybe, just don't listen to

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Trist: podcasts or you're not sure if they might be interested in what

Speaker: 00:28:21

Trist: we do here.

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Trist: Maybe they'd be interested in the music so you can just share

Speaker: 00:28:25

Trist: any of the playlists that we've listed here in the show notes.

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Trist: We've got them from lots of different platforms.

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Trist: So, they make good road trip

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Trist: playlists I found if you have a

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Trist: long drive, because there's just

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Trist: so much variety, we try to get

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Trist: to lots of different kinds of

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Trist: music.

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Trist: And then, whoever you send it

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Trist: to, if they find themselves

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Trist: interested in one of the songs

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Trist: and want to know more about it,

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Trist: then maybe they can check out an

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Trist: episode, but just know that

Speaker: 00:28:47

Trist: they're there for your own

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Trist: edification.

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Trist: But also, if you'd like to share one of those and you can help us

Speaker: 00:28:52

Trist: spread the word.

Speaker: 00:28:53

Elaine: All right.

Speaker: 00:28:53

Elaine: Thank you very much and we will see you next week.

Speaker: 00:28:57

Trist: See you.

Speaker: 00:29:10

Elaine: You haven't heard of Jobim?

Speaker: 00:29:11

Elaine: and like gave me a CD.

Speaker: 00:29:12

Elaine: I still have that CD.

Speaker: 00:29:13

Trist: Hey, everybody, don't get old.

Speaker: 00:29:15

Elaine: she was like recalculating, recalculating.

Speaker: 00:29:18

Elaine: And like 20s later, I'm like, are you still thinking?

Speaker: 00:29:23

Elaine: the name, I'm like, oh, that's Brazilian.

Speaker: 00:29:25

Elaine: And then I was like, oh, I'm gonna get judged.