A breakup, musical stops, and a dismissive complimentary close: Best (Theo Katzman)
Listen to the song
- YouTube - https://youtu.be/h1ATm0c6AxA
- Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/track/1n11viwoaXFWfC9uZ1NFqb?si=d490e74dbe7f4994
- Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/us/song/best/1493029104
- Amazon - https://music.amazon.com/albums/B0837KZQLD?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_E9l5274gs9HHbWiawDsognJWu&trackAsin=B0837LFF1R
Other links
- How to End a Letter: 10 Formal Letter Closings (Grammarly)
- Playlist of the songs we’ve reviewed
- YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5bn23baJ4xQ1t0TMqukELY5W95HwuMoT
- Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7gCOF5M0zYS1fBvXgT5ccI?si=7F3yVdEDRRWa_gAArK3AYg
- Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/songs-reviewed-on-the-musicians-loupe/pl.u-V9D7maah06JNo
- Amazon Music - https://music.amazon.com/user-playlists/3b47be4937b7490982f4a872db32ec8dsune?ref=dm_sh_AEFZY8KhvSsz1TGoRmasg6zHZ
Key takeaways
- Trist and Elaine review Theo Katzman’s clever 2020 song “Best,” which focuses on the emotional impact of a letter's complimentary close
- Elaine and Trist discuss the usage of breaks as accents and vocal delay for a choral effect, delving into how production techniques can make vocals sound bigger and more expressive.
- In the Mailbag segment, Trist and Elaine cover how musicians often balance several part-time gigs, and how professional groups maintain a pool of substitute performers to ensure coverage when conflicts arise
About us
Trist Curless is a Los Angeles-based vocalist, educator, and sound engineer. As a performer, Trist has toured worldwide as a co-founder of the pop-jazz vocal group m-pact and a 10 year member of the Grammy-award winning The Manhattan Transfer. In addition to these two vocal powerhouse groups, he’s also performed with Take 6, Bobby McFerrin, New York Voices, Vox Audio, Naturally 7, and The Swingle Singers. His latest venture, The LHR Project, is a new vocal group collective celebrating legendary jazz vocal group Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross.
As an audio engineer, Trist has toured nationally with several vocal groups and bands in a large variety of venues, working for Grammy award winners Pentatonix and Take 6, as well as prominent a cappella vocal groups Straight No Chaser, VoicePlay, and Accent.
Elaine Chao, M.Ed is a San Francisco Bay Area-based vocalist, multi-instrumentalist, vocal percussionist, and songwriter whose career spans a cappella, contemporary worship, and classical music. She has leveraged her training in classical and choral music over the course of her contemporary performance, including in orchestras for musical theatre and in sacred spaces. In addition to music, she also is a martial artist and published author. She currently leads a product management team at a major software company dedicated to creative expression. All statements in this podcast are her own and do not reflect the opinions of her employer.
Transcript
Elaine: Hey, Trist, what do we have this week?
Speaker:Trist: Well, Elaine, this week I think
Speaker:Trist: we have our first repeat
Speaker:Trist: performer.
Speaker:Trist: There may be a little bit of something here and there
Speaker:Trist: semantically, but our first repeat vocalist, at least that I
Speaker:Trist: can think of.
Speaker:Elaine: Huh!
Speaker:Elaine: Okay, so what do we have this week?
Speaker:Trist: Well, as you may remember, for those of you who have listened
Speaker:Trist: to, you know, every episode or even just the first one and for
Speaker:Trist: some reason are catching us again now, we featured Vulfpeck,
Speaker:Trist: one of my favorite bands in the first episode, and a member of
Speaker:Trist: the group, and the lead singer of that first track was a
Speaker:Trist: gentleman named Theo Katzman, who, like most of the folks in
Speaker:Trist: Vulfpeck, have their own projects, their own solo gigs.
Speaker:Trist: Theo has his own stuff, and I
Speaker:Trist: chose a song from one of his
Speaker:Trist: solo albums, and the song is
Speaker:Trist: called, "Best."
Speaker:Elaine: Okay. So with that, we are going to pause for just a moment.
Speaker:Elaine: But before we do, Trist, can you
Speaker:Elaine: remind us how we're listening to
Speaker:Elaine: music as a part of the Musicians
Speaker:Elaine: Loupe community?
Speaker:Trist: Well, we like to encourage you
Speaker:Trist: to find the best listening
Speaker:Trist: position, the best listening
Speaker:Trist: situation, the best listening
Speaker:Trist: gear that you have, and utilize
Speaker:Trist: it.
Speaker:Trist: Sometimes you get a nice piece of gear and then it sits over on
Speaker:Trist: the shelf and you use the faster, easier way.
Speaker:Trist: So we just encourage you, if you have the ability to upgrade your
Speaker:Trist: listening situation for our listening purposes while you
Speaker:Trist: listen to our playlist or just this particular week's song, but
Speaker:Trist: if you can't, we are thrilled to have you regardless.
Speaker:Trist: Thanks a lot.
Speaker:Elaine: All right.
Speaker:Elaine: So we're going to leave the links in the show notes.
Speaker:Elaine: Go ahead and pause.
Speaker:Elaine: We will be right back.
Speaker:Elaine: And we are back.
Speaker:Elaine: Ooh, that one was really funny.
Speaker:Elaine: It was really fun to listen
Speaker:Trist: Yeah.
Speaker:Elaine: to
Speaker:Trist: It's
Speaker:Elaine: this
Speaker:Trist: clever.
Speaker:Elaine: one.
Speaker:Trist: Right?
Speaker:Elaine: It is incredibly clever.
Speaker:Elaine: I think clever is a really good word to describe it.
Speaker:Elaine: It had so much going for it.
Speaker:Elaine: And it's so contemporary.
Speaker:Elaine: I'm wondering actually whether
Speaker:Elaine: it's going to feel dated and
Speaker:Elaine: another fifteen or twenty years,
Speaker:Elaine: but
Speaker:Trist: Hm.
Speaker:Elaine: I don't know, maybe it won't.
Speaker:Trist: That's true.
Speaker:Trist: Being in the writing of letters.
Speaker:Trist: I suppose sending an email is still writing a letter and you
Speaker:Trist: still have salutations in which you need to decide which you're
Speaker:Trist: going to use.
Speaker:Trist: So I guess in some ways maybe.
Speaker:Trist: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker:Trist: I think it'll hang around for a while.
Speaker:Elaine: All right.
Speaker:Elaine: So tell me a little bit about
Speaker:Elaine: why you chose this song out of
Speaker:Elaine: all of the things that he's done?
Speaker:Trist: That's really the primary thing.
Speaker:Trist: I mean, I like his voice, his
Speaker:Trist: musicianship is always
Speaker:Trist: excellent.
Speaker:Trist: He's a good songwriter, but I
Speaker:Trist: just liked the cleverness of
Speaker:Trist: this.
Speaker:Trist: I'm a sucker for that.
Speaker:Trist: And, musically nice form, cool
Speaker:Trist: chords, he doesn't stay super
Speaker:Trist: basic yet very singable and
Speaker:Trist: catchy.
Speaker:Trist: A lot of cool chords, has a nice bridge.
Speaker:Trist: We love a nice bridge here on The Musician's Loupe.
Speaker:Trist: Um, yeah, the whole package is just there, very slick, cool
Speaker:Trist: chords in the right places without having too many of them,
Speaker:Trist: just a very clever lyric.
Speaker:Trist: I like odd topics.
Speaker:Trist: I wouldn't have thought to write a song about that particular
Speaker:Trist: topic, but that's why I like it.
Speaker:Elaine: All right.
Speaker:Elaine: So I want to suggest that we finish with the lyrics because
Speaker:Elaine: we can talk about them forever.
Speaker:Trist: Okay.
Speaker:Elaine: And let's start with instrumentation.
Speaker:Elaine: One of the things that I really loved about it was, it sounded
Speaker:Elaine: very simple, very jazzy.
Speaker:Elaine: And yet the more you listen to
Speaker:Elaine: it, the more things popped out
Speaker:Elaine: in terms of the instruments that
Speaker:Elaine: he chose.
Speaker:Elaine: Certainly
Speaker:Trist: Right.
Speaker:Elaine: starting out piano forward,
Speaker:Elaine: there was this little rubato
Speaker:Elaine: section leading into something
Speaker:Elaine: that had a lot more rhythm to
Speaker:Elaine: it.
Speaker:Elaine: And so I'm wondering what you heard out of that orchestration
Speaker:Elaine: as you were listening to it.
Speaker:Trist: I like the different textures that outline the sections.
Speaker:Trist: The verses are pretty sparse.
Speaker:Trist: And again, as we've talked about many times, the textures really
Speaker:Trist: help because getting the basis of what the song is about, the
Speaker:Trist: lyric is pretty darn important that it really comes through.
Speaker:Trist: So less stuff in the way.
Speaker:Trist: There's enough rhythmic and harmonic stuff, yet still plenty
Speaker:Trist: of space that the focus is what the lyrics are, so you can get
Speaker:Trist: hooked into what this is about.
Speaker:Trist: And then even as the textures go, you're already clued in to
Speaker:Trist: what the lyric is.
Speaker:Trist: So you hopefully stick there and
Speaker:Trist: the lyrics never get kind of
Speaker:Trist: buried.
Speaker:Trist: So I love that.
Speaker:Elaine: One thing that I did notice was that nothing felt like it
Speaker:Elaine: attacked too much.
Speaker:Elaine: Sometimes
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: with rhythm and especially with snares, you'll find snares that
Speaker:Elaine: are mixed really high.
Speaker:Elaine: This one, the snare didn't have as much of a sizzle on it.
Speaker:Elaine: It was there, but it was tuned very low and it didn't have as
Speaker:Elaine: much of the sizzle that was picked up from it.
Speaker:Elaine: So I just felt like the drums were very subtle.
Speaker:Elaine: They held the beat, but they weren't really overpowering.
Speaker:Elaine: And so the way they were mixed was really pulled back a lot.
Speaker:Trist: That's a very, typical sound for Vulfpeck, too, in the band.
Speaker:Trist: So it kind of translates to some of the other things.
Speaker:Trist: You're not going to get a lot of flash from a lot of that stuff.
Speaker:Trist: Everything is super basic.
Speaker:Trist: When you see the recordings, they'll have videos of while
Speaker:Trist: they recorded, it's like super pared down drum kit without a
Speaker:Trist: lot of extras.
Speaker:Trist: Anyway, they just reminded me of that.
Speaker:Elaine: To follow up on that, I also
Speaker:Elaine: heard some vocals in the
Speaker:Elaine: background that were very
Speaker:Elaine: textural.
Speaker:Elaine: And I know that we've talked
Speaker:Elaine: about this before in the podcast
Speaker:Elaine: about how background vocals have
Speaker:Elaine: really filled in some of the
Speaker:Elaine: spaces where some of the
Speaker:Elaine: instruments haven't.
Speaker:Elaine: Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
Speaker:Trist: Wow. You know, now that you mention them, like so focused on
Speaker:Trist: the groove, the musicality, and the main lyric of the main line,
Speaker:Trist: I'm trying to even hear where in my brain, where the background
Speaker:Trist: vocals are, I suppose on the pre-chorus, there's maybe some.
Speaker:Trist: Yeah.
Speaker:Trist: Wow.
Speaker:Trist: A great job of just focusing on
Speaker:Trist: the lyric on the recording
Speaker:Trist: because I can't even remember
Speaker:Trist: where there are background
Speaker:Trist: vocals.
Speaker:Elaine: Well, I will say that I heard them and they were very subtle.
Speaker:Elaine: They didn't stick out.
Speaker:Elaine: And I think part of it is the intonation, part of it is just
Speaker:Elaine: where it showed up.
Speaker:Elaine: And like you said, a large part of it is just the fact that we
Speaker:Elaine: are so focused on the lyrics because they're so clever.
Speaker:Elaine: So I guess the last thing that I
Speaker:Elaine: wanted to comment about the song
Speaker:Elaine: itself was just the use of
Speaker:Elaine: silence and
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: the use of break, because this
Speaker:Elaine: was one where we just had a
Speaker:Elaine: repeated use of a break as an
Speaker:Elaine: accent.
Speaker:Elaine: It just like stopped.
Speaker:Elaine: And it was almost like the punch.
Speaker:Elaine: It was almost like an exclamation point every time
Speaker:Elaine: that he used that silence.
Speaker:Elaine: Like the entire thing broke for just a like a beat, basically.
Speaker:Elaine: And then went back in.
Speaker:Elaine: And
Speaker:Trist: Yep.
Speaker:Elaine: I really appreciated that.
Speaker:Elaine: That was really, really nice.
Speaker:Trist: I'm always a fan of a break, a stop time, especially anything
Speaker:Trist: groovy and funky.
Speaker:Trist: That's the thing that makes it
Speaker:Trist: groovy and funky is the space
Speaker:Trist: between the notes, sometimes
Speaker:Trist: literally between when you're
Speaker:Trist: playing, but then accentuated by
Speaker:Trist: a break.
Speaker:Trist: All my favorite groove music.
Speaker:Trist: You know how big of a Prince fan I am, and like, got that from
Speaker:Trist: James Brown etc. like the stop at the funky section.
Speaker:Trist: So that amount of space being
Speaker:Trist: just right is what feels so
Speaker:Trist: good.
Speaker:Trist: So yeah, he nails that.
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah. The thing that I did notice was that his voice, it
Speaker:Elaine: sounded like there was a tiny little bit of a delay on it.
Speaker:Elaine: And part of it was like, oh, it sounds doubled.
Speaker:Elaine: But then the more I listened to
Speaker:Elaine: it, I was like, oh, it doesn't
Speaker:Elaine: sound doubled.
Speaker:Elaine: Actually, it just sounds like they have a delay in the voice.
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: Which I think was exactly what they did on the Vulfpeck track
Speaker:Elaine: that we listened
Speaker:Trist: Probably.
Speaker:Elaine: to at the very beginning.
Speaker:Elaine: Right.
Speaker:Trist: Yeah, probably.
Speaker:Elaine: Okay. Can you talk a little bit
Speaker:Elaine: about why people use delay for
Speaker:Elaine: that?
Speaker:Elaine: what effect is it that people are going for when they're using
Speaker:Elaine: the tiny bit of delay?
Speaker:Trist: Using delay can achieve different things.
Speaker:Trist: Within a bigger texture, when
Speaker:Trist: there's a lot of stuff going on
Speaker:Trist: to help fill out the sound, you
Speaker:Trist: can use a little bit longer
Speaker:Trist: delay that happens quietly that
Speaker:Trist: you're not really aware of, of,
Speaker:Trist: of, of.
Speaker:Trist: So if all of those get quieter, it just is extra sound that you
Speaker:Trist: might not necessarily hear it.
Speaker:Trist: Now sometimes there's an effect effect effect effect effect.
Speaker:Trist: Like is purpose.
Speaker:Trist: Like very much you want people to hear it repeated, repeated,
Speaker:Trist: repeated like that.
Speaker:Trist: But a lot of times delay – and
Speaker:Trist: if it's timed out like that in
Speaker:Trist: time, it's often just a part of
Speaker:Trist: the rhythm.
Speaker:Trist: But sometimes, it's very slight.
Speaker:Trist: So part of the effect that you get when you double track, when
Speaker:Trist: you do two tracks of a lead, it's almost impossible to be
Speaker:Trist: exactly the same as what you sang the first time, so it makes
Speaker:Trist: it sound a little bigger.
Speaker:Trist: So you can achieve a similar effect without having to sing
Speaker:Trist: the whole vocal.
Speaker:Trist: If you put the delay just milliseconds long instead of
Speaker:Trist: rhythmically where it's audible.
Speaker:Trist: So then it gives the illusion that there's another voice there
Speaker:Trist: that happens just after.
Speaker:Trist: So a lot of times it's just for
Speaker:Trist: the effect in trying to make it
Speaker:Trist: sound bigger.
Speaker:Trist: It's just another tool in the toolbox that might be a sound
Speaker:Trist: that you like.
Speaker:Elaine: It triggers that choral effect, right?
Speaker:Elaine: That we
Speaker:Trist: Yes,
Speaker:Elaine: listen for
Speaker:Trist: indeed.
Speaker:Elaine: that multiple voice.
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah.
Speaker:Trist: So a lot of times that's how
Speaker:Trist: chorusing will happen is you'll
Speaker:Trist: put two or three delays and
Speaker:Trist: you'll have them at different
Speaker:Trist: times.
Speaker:Trist: And you'll also maybe move the
Speaker:Trist: pitch a bit like change the
Speaker:Trist: pitch of one, five or six cents,
Speaker:Trist: one direction, two or three
Speaker:Trist: cents in another direction,
Speaker:Trist: because that kind of replicates
Speaker:Trist: a group of people trying to sing
Speaker:Trist: the exact same thing, but then
Speaker:Trist: being just very, very slightly
Speaker:Trist: off.
Speaker:Trist: It's the same thing.
Speaker:Trist: You can achieve by using a delay.
Speaker:Elaine: It was interesting that you
Speaker:Elaine: mentioned that, because I was
Speaker:Elaine: watching a reel on Instagram of
Speaker:Elaine: these two singers who were
Speaker:Elaine: trying to do this choral effect,
Speaker:Elaine: and they sang the same line over
Speaker:Elaine: and over again, but as different
Speaker:Elaine: people.
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: And so they actually had the
Speaker:Elaine: intonation in different places
Speaker:Elaine: because they
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: were like, here's the campy version,
Speaker:Trist: Right.
Speaker:Elaine: here's the like chorally trained version,
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: here is the pop version.
Speaker:Elaine: They sang all of these together
Speaker:Elaine: and then mixed them all together
Speaker:Elaine: for that
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: choral sound, just overdubbing themselves in this way to sound
Speaker:Elaine: more like a crowd singing.
Speaker:Elaine: And so
Speaker:Trist: Right.
Speaker:Elaine: funny that you were mentioning
Speaker:Elaine: that, because I was just
Speaker:Elaine: remembering that video that they
Speaker:Elaine: made to show how they actually
Speaker:Elaine: did this.
Speaker:Trist: And then using that technique a lot of times, and they may have
Speaker:Trist: done this too, but you'll even stand different distances from
Speaker:Trist: the microphone that you use because that replicates if you
Speaker:Trist: had twenty people.
Speaker:Trist: Of course, there's somebody that's three or four people
Speaker:Trist: behind you, two or three feet farther away from the microphone
Speaker:Trist: than those in front.
Speaker:Trist: So you'll stand in different places in the room if you're
Speaker:Trist: trying to replicate a group.
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah, I love this.
Speaker:Elaine: Okay, we are finally going to get into the lyrics.
Speaker:Elaine: I
Speaker:Trist: Okay.
Speaker:Elaine: know you want to talk about
Speaker:Trist: Yes.
Speaker:Elaine: them.
Speaker:Trist: No, I know you want to talk about
Speaker:Elaine: I,
Speaker:Trist: them.
Speaker:Elaine: yeah, I definitely want to talk about them because I love the
Speaker:Elaine: lyrics of this song.
Speaker:Elaine: And I think a big part of it is that even in the midst of the
Speaker:Elaine: cleverness, even in the midst of the rant, this person's
Speaker:Elaine: situation is revealed over the course of the
Speaker:Trist: So.
Speaker:Elaine: song.
Speaker:Elaine: Like we don't find out very much about it until the chorus.
Speaker:Elaine: So we have a full 30s of this guy singing about this thing
Speaker:Elaine: that we're like, oh, okay, it's building up this tension.
Speaker:Elaine: Then we find out in the chorus that he is really upset because
Speaker:Elaine: all of the days that they spend together, this is a non-trivial
Speaker:Elaine: amount of time that these people have spent together.
Speaker:Elaine: And he's feeling upset because
Speaker:Elaine: this person signed off a letter
Speaker:Elaine: or an email or whatever it is
Speaker:Elaine: with "best."
Speaker:Elaine: And,
Speaker:Trist: Right.
Speaker:Elaine: um, and then we find out more later in the bridge.
Speaker:Elaine: And I know that you and I have talked about bridges before and
Speaker:Elaine: how bridges are really the moment of truth.
Speaker:Elaine: You find out so much more.
Speaker:Elaine: This is
Speaker:Trist: This
Speaker:Elaine: exactly
Speaker:Trist: is exactly
Speaker:Elaine: when
Speaker:Trist: when
Speaker:Elaine: the crux
Speaker:Trist: the.
Speaker:Elaine: of the song is, is often in the bridge.
Speaker:Elaine: We don't find out until the
Speaker:Elaine: verse right after the bridge
Speaker:Elaine: exactly the nature of the
Speaker:Elaine: relationship.
Speaker:Elaine: And so in the bridge, it is very
Speaker:Elaine: clever because it talks about
Speaker:Elaine: all of these different things
Speaker:Elaine: that this person could have
Speaker:Elaine: written instead.
Speaker:Elaine: And
Speaker:Trist: Right.
Speaker:Elaine: then in the verse right after that, it talks about the sexual
Speaker:Elaine: relationship that they had.
Speaker:Elaine: And this intimacy that they shared.
Speaker:Elaine: And you find out the depth of his hurt.
Speaker:Elaine: And I think a big part of it is that you realize at that point
Speaker:Elaine: in time that it wasn't just because he felt dismissed, it
Speaker:Elaine: was because he felt betrayed, because all of this time that
Speaker:Elaine: they had spent together, was in some ways almost dismissed
Speaker:Elaine: because of the word "best."
Speaker:Elaine: And so I just thought that was
Speaker:Elaine: really clever, the way that he
Speaker:Elaine: brought us along on this
Speaker:Elaine: journey.
Speaker:Elaine: And we don't find out until near the end of the song exactly why
Speaker:Elaine: he is so upset.
Speaker:Trist: I love that.
Speaker:Trist: I dig it also how we can read into something like that.
Speaker:Trist: Like maybe it was intentional,
Speaker:Trist: maybe not, maybe whatever letter
Speaker:Trist: that was written to him tried to
Speaker:Trist: be more heartfelt, tried to
Speaker:Trist: connect, whatever.
Speaker:Trist: But of all the things that were
Speaker:Trist: said, the fact that just the
Speaker:Trist: salutation is the thing that
Speaker:Trist: seemed like it was
Speaker:Trist: representative of the feelings,
Speaker:Trist: like who knows what was in the
Speaker:Trist: letter?
Speaker:Trist: The whole letter might have been amazingly well written and
Speaker:Trist: heartfelt and talked to him about how great everything was.
Speaker:Trist: It's too bad it had to end.
Speaker:Trist: But he gets stuck on the fact that she chose "best" instead
Speaker:Elaine: Okay,
Speaker:Trist: of all the other options.
Speaker:Elaine: so here's where my grammar nerd comes out.
Speaker:Elaine: So I
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: had to look up like, what do you call that last thing that you
Speaker:Elaine: write before you write your name in a letter?
Speaker:Elaine: And apparently
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: it's called the complimentary close.
Speaker:Trist: Oh.
Speaker:Elaine: And so a salutation is like, dear, so and so, right.
Speaker:Elaine: And like the complimentary because I'd forgotten it, I was
Speaker:Elaine: just like, what do you call that
Speaker:Trist: Oh.
Speaker:Elaine: thing?
Speaker:Elaine: What
Speaker:Trist: Was
Speaker:Elaine: do you
Speaker:Trist: I
Speaker:Elaine: call
Speaker:Trist: was
Speaker:Elaine: sincerely?
Speaker:Trist: I misusing that?
Speaker:Trist: Was I calling
Speaker:Elaine: Uh,
Speaker:Trist: it the
Speaker:Elaine: yeah.
Speaker:Trist: greedy?
Speaker:Elaine: So, um,
Speaker:Trist: I thought
Speaker:Elaine: I
Speaker:Trist: the greetings
Speaker:Elaine: found,
Speaker:Trist: was okay.
Speaker:Elaine: yeah, so I looked this up right before we recorded the podcast
Speaker:Elaine: and there was an amazing blog post that I found on Grammarly
Speaker:Elaine: that we're going to link into the show notes.
Speaker:Elaine: And it's basically like writing tips.
Speaker:Elaine: How to end a letter.
Speaker:Elaine: And I'm going to read a couple
Speaker:Elaine: of segments out of this blog
Speaker:Elaine: post because I felt like it
Speaker:Elaine: applied exactly to this letter
Speaker:Elaine: and maybe like adds a couple
Speaker:Elaine: more nails to this coffin,
Speaker:Elaine: right?
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: So here's the first quote.
Speaker:Elaine: "Your letter closing is the last
Speaker:Elaine: thing your recipient will read,
Speaker:Elaine: which is why it's essential to
Speaker:Elaine: end a formal letter or email
Speaker:Elaine: appropriately.
Speaker:Elaine: How you end your letter can dictate how your recipient
Speaker:Elaine: receives your message and the overall impression you leave.
Speaker:Elaine: It can also set the tone for
Speaker:Elaine: future communications, build
Speaker:Elaine: rapport with the recipient, or
Speaker:Elaine: strengthen an existing
Speaker:Elaine: relationship."
Speaker:Elaine: And I was like, ooh, "best."
Speaker:Elaine: Okay.
Speaker:Elaine: So the second one is "How you
Speaker:Elaine: end your letter should reflect
Speaker:Elaine: your relationship with the
Speaker:Elaine: recipient.
Speaker:Elaine: If your letter is addressed to a
Speaker:Elaine: manager or supervisor, your
Speaker:Elaine: closing should convey respect or
Speaker:Elaine: deference."
Speaker:Elaine: And I was like, ooh, "best."
Speaker:Elaine: That is a sign off there, right?
Speaker:Elaine: So the third quote is "Your
Speaker:Elaine: closing should match your
Speaker:Elaine: overall purpose.
Speaker:Elaine: The reason you're sending the letter.
Speaker:Elaine: If you're writing specifically to request something or to
Speaker:Elaine: express gratitude, your letter should close with an
Speaker:Elaine: appreciative sign off."
Speaker:Elaine: I'm like, oh, "best," right?
Speaker:Elaine: And so like all three of these, as I was reading this with the
Speaker:Elaine: context of this song, I was like, oh, the word "best" has a
Speaker:Elaine: lot of connotation to it.
Speaker:Trist: That's amazing.
Speaker:Trist: Yeah, I love it.
Speaker:Trist: Again, it's so clever.
Speaker:Trist: Without saying it's like you could have said anything else,
Speaker:Trist: you could have said all of these other things and it would have
Speaker:Trist: been better than "best."
Speaker:Elaine: In the chorus itself, he does talk about some of the things
Speaker:Elaine: that he would have preferred.
Speaker:Elaine: You could have told me to get lost.
Speaker:Elaine: You
Speaker:Trist: Sure,
Speaker:Elaine: could have told me to just like, go away.
Speaker:Trist: sure.
Speaker:Elaine: Right.
Speaker:Elaine: And none of that really happened.
Speaker:Elaine: The fact that the song is fixated on this word is on the
Speaker:Elaine: one hand, so hilarious.
Speaker:Elaine: And on the other hand, it's also very understandable.
Speaker:Elaine: And I think part of the tragedy of the song is that he is
Speaker:Elaine: sitting here grieving not only the relationship, but he's also
Speaker:Elaine: grieving the way that he was treated at the very end.
Speaker:Elaine: And
Speaker:Trist: Yeah.
Speaker:Elaine: so to your point, I think the
Speaker:Elaine: letter could have been very well
Speaker:Elaine: constructed, could have been
Speaker:Elaine: very helpful, could have been
Speaker:Elaine: very complimentary.
Speaker:Elaine: But it did end with something that he found very personally
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: offensive.
Speaker:Elaine: And so, yeah, the rant is on the one hand, so funny and at the
Speaker:Elaine: same time just heartbreaking.
Speaker:Trist: Such a good one.
Speaker:Trist: Clever.
Speaker:Trist: Very good writer.
Speaker:Trist: Lots of his songs are very well done.
Speaker:Trist: But I liked this one.
Speaker:Elaine: Okay, well, any last things to
Speaker:Elaine: say about this song before we
Speaker:Elaine: move on?
Speaker:Trist: Oh, I think that's it.
Speaker:Trist: Just a real good one.
Speaker:Trist: You got to pay attention to all the lyrics on.
Speaker:Trist: Love it.
Speaker:Elaine: Well, thanks for bringing this to us.
Speaker:Trist: Of course.
Speaker:Elaine: So we're going to move along to our next segment, which is.
Speaker:Trist: Mailbag.
Speaker:Elaine: That's right. The Mailbag.
Speaker:Elaine: And you can reach us by emailing us at themusiciansloupe, that's
Speaker:Elaine: L o u p e at gmail dot com.
Speaker:Elaine: Or by sending us a message on
Speaker:Elaine: either Threads or on Instagram
Speaker:Elaine: @themusiciansloupe.
Speaker:Trist: Yes, that would be the place to let us know your thoughts about
Speaker:Trist: this week's song, or any of the other stuff from Theo's catalog.
Speaker:Trist: Or the way that you like to end your letter when you really want
Speaker:Trist: to prove a point, you can let us know any of those things.
Speaker:Trist: Also love for you to check out the playlists.
Speaker:Trist: All of the platforms that we are on have a section where you can
Speaker:Trist: check out the playlist of all of the songs we have covered.
Speaker:Trist: So send that out to friends, family, heck, send it to people
Speaker:Trist: you don't even like.
Speaker:Trist: Spread the word.
Speaker:Trist: Let them know that we're here,
Speaker:Trist: and there may be some songs on
Speaker:Trist: there that they can just enjoy
Speaker:Trist: by themselves.
Speaker:Trist: But if they hear the playlist and there's a song that stands
Speaker:Trist: out to them, they'd love to know more about it.
Speaker:Trist: You can point them to us.
Speaker:Elaine: All right, so this week's Mailbag comes from Threads.
Speaker:Elaine: It is a post from Casey Shelnutt music from January of 2026.
Speaker:Elaine: And she writes fact colon full time musician doesn't mean
Speaker:Elaine: you're on the road gigging 24 / 7 or have a full time position
Speaker:Elaine: with an orchestra or signed with a record label.
Speaker:Elaine: It can also mean colon choir
Speaker:Elaine: accompanist, private music
Speaker:Elaine: teacher, studio recording
Speaker:Elaine: artist, audio engineer,
Speaker:Elaine: composer, church musician,
Speaker:Elaine: songwriter, wedding musician,
Speaker:Elaine: pit musician, orchestra sub,
Speaker:Elaine: arranger, ensemble director,
Speaker:Elaine: band director.
Speaker:Elaine: What else did I miss?
Speaker:Trist: Yeah, this is true of really most arts careers.
Speaker:Trist: Living in Los Angeles, there are a lot of us, friends of mine, me
Speaker:Trist: included, who consider ourselves full time musicians.
Speaker:Trist: But yeah, I don't have just one job.
Speaker:Trist: There are varied things.
Speaker:Trist: Some have one full time musician type job that kind of really
Speaker:Trist: does what they need to do, but they seek out other things on
Speaker:Trist: their own to fill the coffers and fill the creativity.
Speaker:Trist: And sometimes they don't have that perfect.
Speaker:Trist: They have several small part
Speaker:Trist: time musician jobs that makes
Speaker:Trist: what they do and gets their
Speaker:Trist: bills paid.
Speaker:Trist: So yeah, we can relate with that.
Speaker:Trist: I have a lot of friends that do
Speaker:Trist: all of those things that she
Speaker:Trist: listed.
Speaker:Trist: I'm much in that mode myself.
Speaker:Trist: Not on the road all the time, but I am a bit.
Speaker:Trist: And then sometimes I'm home and you're just piecing it together.
Speaker:Trist: In some ways it can get a little tiring.
Speaker:Trist: It'd be great if you just had one thing, but in a lot of ways
Speaker:Trist: I enjoy that.
Speaker:Trist: It gives you a lot of variety.
Speaker:Elaine: I feel like there is something about that.
Speaker:Elaine: Certainly there are people who I know who have one primary gig.
Speaker:Elaine: Whether it is a group that they belong to or they're a full time
Speaker:Elaine: music teacher or they're just doing private lessons.
Speaker:Elaine: But I think for the people who
Speaker:Elaine: are gigging, there are a lot of
Speaker:Elaine: people who you and I both know
Speaker:Elaine: in common.
Speaker:Elaine: And I feel like the average is
Speaker:Elaine: somewhere between five and ten,
Speaker:Elaine: where it's like you have five to
Speaker:Elaine: ten things going at every given
Speaker:Elaine: point in time when we find this
Speaker:Elaine: out because it's like, oh yeah,
Speaker:Elaine: today I'm singing with this
Speaker:Elaine: group.
Speaker:Elaine: Today I'm singing with this group.
Speaker:Elaine: I'm at a wedding this time.
Speaker:Elaine: I'm playing a bar tonight.
Speaker:Elaine: And so I think that it is something for us to think about.
Speaker:Elaine: Like, how do you patch together?
Speaker:Elaine: How do you I don't even say patch together.
Speaker:Elaine: How do you construct a career
Speaker:Elaine: out of all of these ongoing but
Speaker:Elaine: infrequent gigs?
Speaker:Elaine: And especially
Speaker:Trist: Right?
Speaker:Elaine: if you're a local musician
Speaker:Elaine: versus a touring musician, I
Speaker:Elaine: feel like more of my local
Speaker:Elaine: musicians are doing that kind of
Speaker:Elaine: thing.
Speaker:Elaine: Like they have a church gig.
Speaker:Elaine: They have a regular thing that they're doing at a club.
Speaker:Elaine: They have three different bands that they're playing with, like
Speaker:Elaine: that kind of thing I feel like is more standard than maybe most
Speaker:Elaine: people would think.
Speaker:Trist: And that really goes with any kind of gig work.
Speaker:Trist: Other arts, actors, musicians, other artists, other mediums,
Speaker:Trist: lots of that, you've got some work for hire and then stuff you
Speaker:Trist: do on your own.
Speaker:Trist: Obviously lots of the stereotype
Speaker:Trist: is actors and musicians being
Speaker:Trist: wait staff, so sometimes those
Speaker:Trist: extra jobs that aren't really
Speaker:Trist: even directly related to your
Speaker:Trist: profession.
Speaker:Trist: I guess at least the way that
Speaker:Trist: she's putting it, it's cool that
Speaker:Trist: you have to do all of those
Speaker:Trist: things to get it to be a full
Speaker:Trist: time musician, but at least all
Speaker:Trist: of those are music that she
Speaker:Trist: listed.
Speaker:Trist: She didn't list all the other things that that musicians can
Speaker:Trist: end up doing to pay the rent that aren't music.
Speaker:Trist: I think of it that way rather than, oh man, I have to piece
Speaker:Trist: together all of these things to make it work.
Speaker:Trist: It's like, if all of these
Speaker:Trist: things are all related to my
Speaker:Trist: industry, then that's pretty
Speaker:Trist: great.
Speaker:Trist: Not having to have another quote
Speaker:Trist: unquote day job or working for
Speaker:Trist: someone else doing something
Speaker:Trist: that's not related to your
Speaker:Trist: interests.
Speaker:Elaine: It is interesting to think about
Speaker:Elaine: like, I have known people who
Speaker:Elaine: have done both where, some
Speaker:Elaine: people that we know in common
Speaker:Elaine: were working at a bank or as a
Speaker:Elaine: programmer, and it was
Speaker:Elaine: definitely their secondary
Speaker:Elaine: thing.
Speaker:Elaine: It was more
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: a contract work for them to do that secondary thing.
Speaker:Elaine: But I think there's also some
Speaker:Elaine: people who have two primary part
Speaker:Elaine: time things.
Speaker:Elaine: Like I was talking with a friend of mine a couple of years ago,
Speaker:Elaine: and he was someone who for a long time was doing, I'd say
Speaker:Elaine: like more seasonal work.
Speaker:Elaine: So this is more pit orchestra, music direction kind of stuff.
Speaker:Elaine: So that would be for a season,
Speaker:Elaine: for two months or whatnot of
Speaker:Elaine: rehearsals and then doing a
Speaker:Elaine: show.
Speaker:Elaine: and then he would also do private music lessons.
Speaker:Elaine: But when I talked to him most recently, he'd stopped all of
Speaker:Elaine: that because he had two primary part time consistent gigs.
Speaker:Elaine: So he had a church gig that was fifty percent.
Speaker:Elaine: And then he added a school gig that was fifty percent.
Speaker:Elaine: Both of them were doing music, so music directing.
Speaker:Elaine: And then the other one, he was supporting a music teacher, like
Speaker:Elaine: by playing piano and
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: he was feeling pretty content with that level of balance that
Speaker:Elaine: he had in doing these two things that balanced really well with
Speaker:Elaine: his personal life.
Speaker:Elaine: I think he was getting his, um,
Speaker:Elaine: like medical care through one of
Speaker:Elaine: them.
Speaker:Elaine: And so it's one of those things
Speaker:Elaine: that I felt was a really
Speaker:Elaine: encouraging thing to think about
Speaker:Elaine: like how he was able to find
Speaker:Elaine: something that was long term and
Speaker:Elaine: consistent.
Speaker:Elaine: I think you and I both know of
Speaker:Elaine: people who aren't working
Speaker:Elaine: seasonal jobs.
Speaker:Elaine: They are working pretty
Speaker:Elaine: consistent jobs over and over
Speaker:Elaine: again.
Speaker:Elaine: And that's actually giving them
Speaker:Elaine: that level of stability that
Speaker:Elaine: they want and being in the arts
Speaker:Elaine: as well.
Speaker:Trist: Indeed, indeed.
Speaker:Trist: Everyone just figures out what they have to do and then also
Speaker:Trist: depends on their other what other what other things are
Speaker:Trist: happening with their family, what their other life needs are
Speaker:Trist: and where their limit is and how they have to pace themselves.
Speaker:Trist: Everyone has their own way about it.
Speaker:Elaine: I'd really like to flip this on this head, though.
Speaker:Elaine: And think about how professional groups handle the people who
Speaker:Elaine: have multiple gigs.
Speaker:Elaine: And so I know that you've been
Speaker:Elaine: in a couple of professional
Speaker:Elaine: groups where you just need
Speaker:Elaine: coverage because someone has
Speaker:Elaine: another gig that might be making
Speaker:Elaine: more money or it just has a
Speaker:Elaine: conflict.
Speaker:Elaine: And so how do the professional groups that tour make sure that
Speaker:Elaine: they can have their people on site or have a person on site?
Speaker:Elaine: Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
Speaker:Trist: Well, it really depends on what your deal is.
Speaker:Trist: If you're a part of the
Speaker:Trist: ownership of a group, then your
Speaker:Trist: flexibility is going to be
Speaker:Trist: different.
Speaker:Trist: Like you're a mandatory thing.
Speaker:Trist: There are some bands and things
Speaker:Trist: where there are front people and
Speaker:Trist: then whoever's assisting in the
Speaker:Trist: back in the band, maybe their
Speaker:Trist: face isn't necessarily important
Speaker:Trist: to the gig, as weird as that is
Speaker:Trist: to say.
Speaker:Trist: You just need someone that's good at whatever, playing the
Speaker:Trist: piano, playing the bass.
Speaker:Trist: If it's an act that no one is there to see that particular
Speaker:Trist: bass player because the name on the bill doesn't include them.
Speaker:Trist: So it doesn't really matter.
Speaker:Trist: This actually goes back to last week's episode of Tommy Dorsey
Speaker:Trist: having the Sentimentalists.
Speaker:Trist: Theoretically, even though it
Speaker:Trist: was always the Clark Sisters, if
Speaker:Trist: he fired them, he could hire
Speaker:Trist: other people and still just call
Speaker:Trist: them the Sentimentalists,
Speaker:Trist: because people didn't know who
Speaker:Trist: they were.
Speaker:Trist: So easy to have subs then.
Speaker:Trist: So thank you long time listeners.
Speaker:Trist: If you listen to these two in a
Speaker:Trist: row, you got a little bonus
Speaker:Trist: coverage.
Speaker:Trist: If you're a 1099, just part time worker for a group and there's
Speaker:Trist: some conflicts, you have more choices like, well, hey, you
Speaker:Trist: don't think of me as a full time, like I'm the essential
Speaker:Trist: person slash owner in the group.
Speaker:Trist: So here's these times where I have this other thing to do.
Speaker:Trist: I guess you have to find somebody else.
Speaker:Trist: Usually that's dealt with way
Speaker:Trist: more professionally, and the
Speaker:Trist: person that needs to be out will
Speaker:Trist: help.
Speaker:Trist: Even if on paper they're not really required to help.
Speaker:Trist: Of course, you're usually family by that point and you're wanting
Speaker:Trist: things to be good and copacetic with your band mates.
Speaker:Trist: So every situation is different.
Speaker:Trist: I know situations where it's
Speaker:Trist: literally the person that has to
Speaker:Trist: miss shows, hey, here's the
Speaker:Trist: shows I'm missing and that's all
Speaker:Trist: they do.
Speaker:Trist: And then they don't go to the shows and somebody takes care of
Speaker:Trist: getting them covered.
Speaker:Trist: And I know different groups where someone's like, hey, I
Speaker:Trist: can't do this one, but I've auditioned a guy, I've got him
Speaker:Trist: all ready to go.
Speaker:Trist: I've got it figured out.
Speaker:Trist: He's going to be perfect for you.
Speaker:Trist: Here's your replacement.
Speaker:Trist: And so every situation is unique.
Speaker:Elaine: I feel like there are a lot of groups that you and I both know
Speaker:Elaine: who just have a pool of subs.
Speaker:Elaine: And you have your primary
Speaker:Elaine: person, but if your primary
Speaker:Elaine: person can't make it for some
Speaker:Elaine: reason, you have a pool of
Speaker:Elaine: people who you can call up for
Speaker:Elaine: that gig.
Speaker:Elaine: And so it really is developing that bench and making sure that
Speaker:Elaine: you have people who can step in.
Speaker:Elaine: I think you're right, though, there is also the sense of where
Speaker:Elaine: are the gigs where everyone has to make it and where are the
Speaker:Elaine: gigs where, oh, someone else could step in for this part.
Speaker:Elaine: I'm also thinking about the LHR
Speaker:Elaine: Project, which you're running as
Speaker:Elaine: well, which is really built as a
Speaker:Elaine: collective.
Speaker:Elaine: Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
Speaker:Trist: Sure. For those who don't know, I have a project that's a
Speaker:Trist: tribute to Lambert, Hendricks and Ross, the jazz singing trio
Speaker:Trist: from the 50s and 60s.
Speaker:Trist: And while it was a one time only
Speaker:Trist: gig at first, and the singers
Speaker:Trist: that I got for that show are
Speaker:Trist: busy and they're really good at
Speaker:Trist: doing this gig, which is why I
Speaker:Trist: found them and wanted them to do
Speaker:Trist: it.
Speaker:Trist: So we had a great time, but
Speaker:Trist: they're so busy that they can't
Speaker:Trist: do it every time I get a gig
Speaker:Trist: proposal.
Speaker:Trist: So I realized I needed to
Speaker:Trist: diversify, and I have a handful
Speaker:Trist: of others that can also do the
Speaker:Trist: job.
Speaker:Trist: Again, unique in this instance,
Speaker:Trist: because the makeup of this
Speaker:Trist: particular singing group doesn't
Speaker:Trist: require a lot of balance and
Speaker:Trist: blending.
Speaker:Trist: And like, it's not a group vocal.
Speaker:Trist: Like you think of most vocal groups like the Four Freshmen or
Speaker:Trist: the Manhattan Transfer or anything that requires hours of
Speaker:Trist: matching your vowels and getting a good group sound.
Speaker:Trist: It's like three horn players
Speaker:Trist: that just show up at a gig and
Speaker:Trist: play jazz.
Speaker:Trist: So it's kind of like the vocal version of that.
Speaker:Trist: So luckily, changing members doesn't really change the show
Speaker:Trist: all that much.
Speaker:Elaine: It's interesting to think about
Speaker:Elaine: it from that perspective,
Speaker:Elaine: especially as we're talking
Speaker:Elaine: about the industry, we're
Speaker:Elaine: talking about how you construct
Speaker:Elaine: your business really, especially
Speaker:Elaine: if you have multiple people
Speaker:Elaine: involved.
Speaker:Elaine: So any last thoughts about this before we close out?
Speaker:Trist: No, it is true though.
Speaker:Trist: Full time musician is rarely just one job.
Speaker:Elaine: All right.
Speaker:Elaine: So with that we're going to close out.
Speaker:Elaine: Like we mentioned before, please
Speaker:Elaine: do share an episode or the
Speaker:Elaine: playlist.
Speaker:Elaine: We would love to get more people listening to us.
Speaker:Elaine: And we know that you know the
Speaker:Elaine: right people to share these
Speaker:Elaine: podcasts with.
Speaker:Elaine: So with that, thank you for joining us this week and we'll
Speaker:Elaine: see you next week.
Speaker:Trist: Thank you.
Speaker:Elaine: What is my reaction to this one?
Speaker:Trist: I'm so sorry.
Speaker:Trist: Say that one more time.
Speaker:Elaine: Okay, so last thing I know that I said the last thing was the
Speaker:Elaine: last thing, but, um, I'm like, oh no. Okay.
Speaker:Elaine: For some reason I thought that was supposed to come at the end.
