Solo voice, multiple registers, and live performance: Blackbird (Bobby McFerrin)
Listen to the song
- YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v8uzMFb74M
- Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/track/5bNoizZe6YhwPXGt0mu7fX?si=22a02fc363a44d9e
- Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/nz/song/blackbird/41228105
- Amazon - https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0011ZYCU2?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_5PzlbJJBi2oR2UNWbHSRu4VZo&trackAsin=B0011ZP7H4
Key takeaways
- Trist and Elaine discuss Bobby McFerrin’s live solo vocal album through the lens of “Blackbird,” a Beatles cover. In the piece, McFerrin uses techniques like switching between vocal registers and singing while breathing in, which showcases his exceptional precision and intonation
- Elaine and Trist also emphasize the magic of McFerrin's live performances, where his playful sounds, such as bird flapping noises and whistling, elicit delighted reactions from the audience
- In the Mailbag segment, Elaine and Trist talk about both classic and modern ways to get more exposure for a new act, including opening for similar bands, collaborating with local businesses, and networking at music workshops, camps, and conferences
About us
Trist Curless is a Los Angeles-based vocalist, educator, and sound engineer. As a performer, Trist has toured worldwide as a co-founder of the pop-jazz vocal group m-pact and a 10 year member of the Grammy-award winning The Manhattan Transfer. In addition to these two vocal powerhouse groups, he’s also performed with Take 6, Bobby McFerrin, New York Voices, Vox Audio, Naturally 7, and The Swingle Singers. His latest venture, The LHR Project, is a new vocal group collective celebrating legendary jazz vocal group Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross.
As an audio engineer, Trist has toured nationally with several vocal groups and bands in a large variety of venues, working for Grammy award winners Pentatonix and Take 6, as well as prominent a cappella vocal groups Straight No Chaser, VoicePlay, and Accent.
Elaine Chao, M.Ed is a San Francisco Bay Area-based vocalist, multi-instrumentalist, vocal percussionist, and songwriter whose career spans a cappella, contemporary worship, and classical music. She has leveraged her training in classical and choral music over the course of her contemporary performance, including in orchestras for musical theatre and in sacred spaces. In addition to music, she also is a martial artist and published author. She currently leads a product management team at a major software company dedicated to creative expression. All statements in this podcast are her own and do not reflect the opinions of her employer.
Transcript
Elaine: Hey, Trist!
Speaker:Elaine: What do we have this week?
Speaker:Trist: Oh my goodness.
Speaker:Trist: One of my favorites.
Speaker:Trist: A foundational part of my
Speaker:Trist: musicianship and just my love of
Speaker:Trist: music comes from the first
Speaker:Trist: album.
Speaker:Trist: I'm pretty sure the first album
Speaker:Trist: to be recorded by a jazz singer
Speaker:Trist: without any accompaniment or
Speaker:Trist: overdubbing.
Speaker:Elaine: Hmm!
Speaker:Trist: Like literally an entire album of just solo voice
Speaker:Elaine: Okay.
Speaker:Trist: from a jazz singer and that
Speaker:Trist: singer, many of our music
Speaker:Trist: friends may know, is Bobby
Speaker:Trist: McFerrin.
Speaker:Elaine: Oh, yeah.
Speaker:Elaine: Classic.
Speaker:Elaine: Bobby
Speaker:Trist: I've chosen, of course, because
Speaker:Trist: I think the first listen of his
Speaker:Trist: style sometimes takes a bit to
Speaker:Trist: grab onto.
Speaker:Trist: So it's easy when you choose a cover song.
Speaker:Trist: So the great Beatles composition "Blackbird."
Speaker:Elaine: Okay, so this is "Blackbird" by Bobby McFerrin.
Speaker:Elaine: We're going to go ahead and put the links into the show notes.
Speaker:Elaine: But before we go, Trist, can you
Speaker:Elaine: remind us how we should be
Speaker:Elaine: listening, especially as we're
Speaker:Elaine: participating in the Musician's
Speaker:Elaine: Loupe community?
Speaker:Trist: Well, as we like to ask here, if you are able, please improve
Speaker:Trist: your listening situation, even if it's just moving to a quieter
Speaker:Trist: place, stopping the other things that you're doing.
Speaker:Trist: And check out the links that we provided and take these few
Speaker:Trist: minutes and just listen.
Speaker:Trist: on the best speakers, on the
Speaker:Trist: best headphones in the best car
Speaker:Trist: stereo, whatever it is you can
Speaker:Trist: improve.
Speaker:Trist: please do so.
Speaker:Trist: We know many of you, listen to us on the fly, and we're just
Speaker:Trist: happy to have you regardless.
Speaker:Trist: But if you can and you can listen just a little bit better.
Speaker:Trist: Treat yourself to a better listening experience.
Speaker:Elaine: All right.
Speaker:Elaine: And with that, we'll be right back.
Speaker:Elaine: And we're back.
Speaker:Elaine: Okay. It has been over twenty five years since I've heard
Speaker:Elaine: this, and it is such a treat.
Speaker:Elaine: Thanks so much for bringing this in.
Speaker:Elaine: I would love to hear a little
Speaker:Elaine: bit about what you heard in this
Speaker:Elaine: track.
Speaker:Trist: Wow, I think what's amazing
Speaker:Trist: about this is, it's kind of
Speaker:Trist: cliche, but I do feel like I
Speaker:Trist: feel or hear something different
Speaker:Trist: every time.
Speaker:Trist: Usually you say that about a composition or a recording that
Speaker:Trist: has layers upon layers of orchestration and
Speaker:Trist: instrumentation and arrangement.
Speaker:Trist: And this is just Bobby's voice.
Speaker:Trist: Maybe I listen to it differently every time.
Speaker:Trist: Sometimes I play a game of like, okay, if I was just doing this
Speaker:Trist: arrangement and I just sang what the bass part was, just follow
Speaker:Trist: the lowest notes and the chord progression, or just listen to
Speaker:Trist: the middle notes and how hard it must be doing when you're going
Speaker:Trist: back and forth to kind of get the middle notes that outline
Speaker:Trist: the chords, and see if you can hear it as separate things, like
Speaker:Trist: if I went into a studio and recorded separate tracks, how
Speaker:Trist: many different ones could I do?
Speaker:Trist: Could I have three or four different layers of notes and
Speaker:Trist: then the melody on top of it, not to mention the cool other
Speaker:Trist: sound effects and his own echo and delays and his little bird
Speaker:Trist: flapping sounds, etc. The whole thing is really a treat.
Speaker:Trist: One thing I really love, I wish
Speaker:Trist: this was a visual medium where
Speaker:Trist: we could see every listener
Speaker:Trist: because hopefully there's a few
Speaker:Trist: people who've never heard this
Speaker:Trist: before.
Speaker:Trist: And one of my real joys in life is to watch someone listen to
Speaker:Trist: this for the first time.
Speaker:Trist: I've had the good fortune of teaching at different schools,
Speaker:Trist: or giving listening classes at places where there are young
Speaker:Trist: students, young singers.
Speaker:Trist: And I play this for them.
Speaker:Trist: The one I remember the most at
Speaker:Trist: the A Cappella Academy one year,
Speaker:Trist: about halfway through,
Speaker:Trist: everyone's very quiet and very
Speaker:Trist: respectful.
Speaker:Trist: But this kid, his eyes just kept
Speaker:Trist: getting bigger and bigger and
Speaker:Trist: bigger.
Speaker:Trist: And eventually he looks right at me and he says, "Don't tell me
Speaker:Trist: that's one dude."
Speaker:Trist: That's what he said.
Speaker:Trist: He's like, he was almost like, don't tell me that's one dude.
Speaker:Elaine: That kind of reminds me of any time I play m-pact for people.
Speaker:Elaine: They're like, it's a mixed group, right?
Speaker:Elaine: I'm like, no, no, no, it.
Speaker:Trist: Right. Yeah. Your ears can deceive you.
Speaker:Trist: And that goes to playing on previous experiences.
Speaker:Trist: If you've never heard a single
Speaker:Trist: voice do all of that, it takes a
Speaker:Trist: minute for your brain to process
Speaker:Trist: because it doesn't have any
Speaker:Trist: files in the hard drive that
Speaker:Trist: match it.
Speaker:Trist: We're looking for comparison.
Speaker:Trist: Like, "oh, that sounds just like..." Like
Speaker:Trist: we always do that. That's-
Speaker:Trist: Actually, that's this show, half of it. "Oh,
Speaker:Trist: that reminds me of this other recording." That's
Speaker:Trist: what we do. But
Speaker:Trist: when you hear that, it's like, oh, okay. I
Speaker:Trist: latch on to, I know that it's Blackbird and I know that's the Beatles,
Speaker:Trist: and then that's all that I know. And
Speaker:Trist: what is this? How
Speaker:Trist: am I hearing all this stuff? So
Speaker:Trist: it takes the brain a little bit to process it all.
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah, I think that a couple of things.
Speaker:Elaine: Like, first of all, we have this sense of this is a live show.
Speaker:Elaine: This is Bobby McFerrin doing this live as a one person
Speaker:Elaine: powerhouse of a
Speaker:Trist: Crazy.
Speaker:Elaine: vocal.
Speaker:Elaine: And I think part of what we get
Speaker:Elaine: from this is the audience
Speaker:Elaine: laughter.
Speaker:Elaine: And
Speaker:Trist: Right.
Speaker:Elaine: the sense of playfulness that we have from Bobby as he's
Speaker:Elaine: whistling, he's doing these kinds of bird flapping noises.
Speaker:Elaine: And the first time that happens, the sounds of the birds, you
Speaker:Elaine: hear people laughing out of delight because it is so
Speaker:Elaine: unexpected, but it introduces you to the sense of not only are
Speaker:Elaine: people in the audience, they're actively engaged in hearing how
Speaker:Elaine: this thing is happening.
Speaker:Elaine: And I think that increases the magic, right?
Speaker:Elaine: Hearing people's reaction to what's happening at any given
Speaker:Elaine: point in time.
Speaker:Trist: Yeah, that may have actually
Speaker:Trist: been the point where my student
Speaker:Trist: friend exclaimed that because I
Speaker:Trist: think that's the first time he
Speaker:Trist: realized that it was a live
Speaker:Trist: performance.
Speaker:Trist: Recording is very good and it starts with a fade in.
Speaker:Trist: So there's no intro, there's no applause at the beginning.
Speaker:Elaine: That's
Speaker:Trist: So
Speaker:Elaine: right.
Speaker:Trist: some of those little audience reactions to the side effects
Speaker:Trist: and stuff is the first time you hear them, and I think that's
Speaker:Trist: when it hit him like, oh, wait a minute, this is actually live.
Speaker:Trist: So that's when he's like, "Don't tell me that's just one guy."
Speaker:Trist: Yeah, it is pretty great.
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah. And I think that part of it is just the sheer technique
Speaker:Elaine: that is involved.
Speaker:Elaine: Can you talk a little bit about
Speaker:Elaine: why this is so impressive for
Speaker:Elaine: singers to hear that someone is
Speaker:Elaine: popping between registers so
Speaker:Elaine: quickly.
Speaker:Trist: Well, it's mostly just the training.
Speaker:Trist: There's the physical ability of the range of your voice and then
Speaker:Trist: training it to be able to switch, not only be able to
Speaker:Trist: switch different registers quickly, but to do so with the
Speaker:Trist: precision and the intonation.
Speaker:Trist: It's not always just one hundred percent absolutely in tune,
Speaker:Trist: every single note.
Speaker:Trist: That's not the point.
Speaker:Trist: I almost feel like he hits the stage and it's like, hey, you
Speaker:Trist: remember this one song?
Speaker:Trist: It kind of went like this.
Speaker:Trist: "Oh, don't you love 'Blackbird' by The Beatles?
Speaker:Trist: That one that goes-" So he's like a person trying to sing it
Speaker:Trist: all for you, sitting in your living room or something.
Speaker:Trist: I don't know.
Speaker:Trist: Almost just his joy of music.
Speaker:Trist: Now, granted, there are original compositions that he does in
Speaker:Trist: these concerts as well.
Speaker:Trist: But that's what I take it as
Speaker:Trist: almost like just sharing with
Speaker:Trist: the audience, the joy he has and
Speaker:Trist: reminding them how cool music
Speaker:Trist: is.
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah, I was thinking more about,
Speaker:Elaine: going back to your initial point
Speaker:Elaine: about just the technical
Speaker:Elaine: challenge that's involved with
Speaker:Elaine: it, because the way that you
Speaker:Elaine: position everything in your body
Speaker:Elaine: to sing in one register is
Speaker:Elaine: different than it is for
Speaker:Elaine: another.
Speaker:Elaine: And so I'm talking about chest
Speaker:Elaine: versus head in this particular
Speaker:Elaine: case.
Speaker:Elaine: And men have the falsetto as well.
Speaker:Elaine: But as we take a look at just the precision of being able to
Speaker:Elaine: make those jumps, the longer the jump or the broader the jump,
Speaker:Elaine: the harder it is.
Speaker:Elaine: And when I was first learning
Speaker:Elaine: how to sing, a big part of what
Speaker:Elaine: we needed to do was to think
Speaker:Elaine: about the note before we
Speaker:Elaine: actually sang the note, like we
Speaker:Elaine: had this preparation phase that
Speaker:Elaine: our body would go into to be
Speaker:Elaine: able to sing in that particular
Speaker:Elaine: range.
Speaker:Elaine: And I do that all the time right
Speaker:Elaine: now as I'm singing harmony, I'm
Speaker:Elaine: like, do I know where my note
Speaker:Elaine: is?
Speaker:Elaine: What do I need to prepare my
Speaker:Elaine: body to do before I actually
Speaker:Elaine: begin singing?
Speaker:Elaine: Now, the fact that this is happening so quickly and
Speaker:Elaine: repeatedly between one and another, the amount of precision
Speaker:Elaine: that you need in both locations is absolutely high.
Speaker:Elaine: And so for singers in
Speaker:Elaine: particular, as we think about
Speaker:Elaine: how we actually generate sound,
Speaker:Elaine: going between those two is
Speaker:Elaine: extremely challenging.
Speaker:Elaine: So the fact that he's able to
Speaker:Elaine: get as precise as he can is
Speaker:Elaine: absolutely amazing.
Speaker:Trist: Yeah, and doing so to include
Speaker:Trist: all of the musical nuances that
Speaker:Trist: we need, the feel, the style,
Speaker:Trist: it's all happening
Speaker:Trist: simultaneously.
Speaker:Trist: So not only the jumping around, and being accurate harmonically,
Speaker:Trist: but accurate rhythmically, like having a feel.
Speaker:Trist: There's a feel, your head moves or bobs, your body can move to it
Speaker:Trist: when he's doing this and yet all by himself. What
Speaker:Trist: a task! I
Speaker:Trist: think I remember reading something
Speaker:Trist: about he had had a vision.
Speaker:Trist: This
Speaker:Trist: is his second album. So
Speaker:Trist: his first album is a a little more traditional. He's
Speaker:Trist: still amazing improviser and does some non-traditional things
Speaker:Trist: on it, but still has a full rhythm section, got a band he
Speaker:Trist: plays and sings with. And
Speaker:Trist: it's a really nice album, but
Speaker:Trist: had this idea, had this vision
Speaker:Trist: for himself, just him on stage
Speaker:Trist: with the audience and debuted
Speaker:Trist: this idea throughout Germany.
Speaker:Trist: And
Speaker:Trist: these are recordings from, the little tour that he set up. I
Speaker:Trist: can imagine the conversations between the agent. They've
Speaker:Trist: heard his first album. "Oh,
Speaker:Trist: so who's gonna- Do you need local
Speaker:Trist: musicians?" "No, no, no, he's
Speaker:Trist: going to do the concert by himself."
Speaker:Trist: "Well,
Speaker:Trist: but the concert is for ninety minutes." "Yeah,
Speaker:Trist: yeah, yeah, yeah, He's just going to be him." You
Speaker:Trist: know, trying to convince a promoter
Speaker:Trist: that that's going to work
Speaker:Trist: before you've ever heard it.
Speaker:Trist: Obviously
Speaker:Trist: after you hear how amazing this is, people are falling
Speaker:Trist: over themselves to give him money to come perform. But
Speaker:Trist: I can imagine the very first time, that conversation. "No,
Speaker:Trist: no, no, it's just going to be-
Speaker:Trist: he's never really done this before,
Speaker:Trist: but it's just going to be
Speaker:Trist: him. Don't
Speaker:Trist: worry. It'll
Speaker:Trist: be great. Uh.
Speaker:Elaine: So one of the other things that I would love to talk about is
Speaker:Elaine: just the technique of singing while breathing in, like,
Speaker:Trist: Hmm.
Speaker:Elaine: he makes some noises that are
Speaker:Elaine: pitched that he's doing while
Speaker:Elaine: breathing in.
Speaker:Elaine: And very similar to what we do
Speaker:Elaine: in beatboxing, where there are
Speaker:Elaine: certain types of sounds that you
Speaker:Elaine: will make while breathing in and
Speaker:Elaine: the catch breaths that are
Speaker:Elaine: involved there.
Speaker:Elaine: And so that seems very familiar.
Speaker:Elaine: But actually doing it while
Speaker:Elaine: pitched is pretty interesting to
Speaker:Elaine: me.
Speaker:Elaine: Can you talk a little bit more about that?
Speaker:Trist: Yeah, I find that interesting, too.
Speaker:Trist: It was a while, in my early years, ever hearing this.
Speaker:Trist: It was a little while before I even noticed it.
Speaker:Trist: Which is even cooler.
Speaker:Trist: Um, in his creation and his
Speaker:Trist: invention of this particular
Speaker:Trist: style of presentation, I think
Speaker:Trist: that's probably something that
Speaker:Trist: came up.
Speaker:Trist: "Well, I need to breathe."
Speaker:Trist: but then it's like, "Oh, but wait a minute.
Speaker:Trist: If I could also add another note
Speaker:Trist: to what I'm doing while I'm
Speaker:Trist: breathing..."
Speaker:Trist: That really could be something
Speaker:Trist: I'm guessing that he came about
Speaker:Trist: that at some point realizing,
Speaker:Trist: "Oh, I could even be more
Speaker:Trist: efficient if I could breathe
Speaker:Trist: in," just like you say, with
Speaker:Trist: people who vocal percussion or
Speaker:Trist: beatboxing, eventually you
Speaker:Trist: realize, "Oh, I could add a
Speaker:Trist: sound to the arsenal that
Speaker:Trist: includes a sound of breathing
Speaker:Trist: in."
Speaker:Trist: And then every once in a while,
Speaker:Trist: you'll get a beatboxer who does
Speaker:Trist: that too much, and they
Speaker:Trist: hyperventilate because all
Speaker:Trist: they're doing is breathing in
Speaker:Trist: sounds and don't actually have
Speaker:Trist: to learn how to get rid of the
Speaker:Trist: air.
Speaker:Trist: I can just imagine that that came about that way.
Speaker:Trist: Like, "Oh, here's it's part of the whole thing.
Speaker:Trist: How can I maintain this time on stage and maintain these grooves
Speaker:Trist: and these feels?
Speaker:Trist: Ooh, what if one in every however many notes, is this note
Speaker:Trist: that I can actually sing this note while I'm breathing in?"
Speaker:Trist: Which is crazy.
Speaker:Elaine: Well, I think especially when
Speaker:Elaine: we're talking about classically
Speaker:Elaine: trained vocalists, we don't
Speaker:Elaine: really practice making any
Speaker:Elaine: noise.
Speaker:Elaine: In fact, we actually practice not making any noise when we're
Speaker:Elaine: singing as we're breathing in, because you're not supposed to.
Speaker:Elaine: That's actually friction, you're not breathing as efficiently if
Speaker:Elaine: you have friction coming in.
Speaker:Elaine: And so just reminding ourselves that vocal chords can work while
Speaker:Elaine: you're breathing in is kind of amazing, because we just don't
Speaker:Elaine: practice that way.
Speaker:Trist: Yeah. I just think it's part of the genius of the whole process.
Speaker:Trist: It's just one more little factor that he can take you on this
Speaker:Trist: ride, and you can go with him and remembering this music and
Speaker:Trist: how great it is, while also being amazed at the way that
Speaker:Trist: he's presenting it.
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah. So I want to finish out with one other thought, which
Speaker:Elaine: has to do with how our ears pick up melody, because as
Speaker:Trist: Hmm.
Speaker:Elaine: I was listening to this, I
Speaker:Elaine: realized that the melody that we
Speaker:Elaine: know so well of "Blackbird" is
Speaker:Elaine: actually sung across multiple
Speaker:Elaine: registers.
Speaker:Elaine: And so there are parts of the
Speaker:Elaine: melody that start out as he's
Speaker:Elaine: singing the bass, and then right
Speaker:Elaine: within just a fraction of a
Speaker:Elaine: second, it goes into another
Speaker:Elaine: register to continue the jump
Speaker:Elaine: that he's been doing, the low
Speaker:Elaine: high jump.
Speaker:Elaine: And he continues the melody there.
Speaker:Elaine: And so can you talk about like what you think our brains are
Speaker:Elaine: doing at that point in time?
Speaker:Trist: Yeah. Interesting.
Speaker:Trist: If we could have done a two part
Speaker:Trist: within this same one is is
Speaker:Trist: compare it to listening to one
Speaker:Trist: of the improvised or original
Speaker:Trist: creations.
Speaker:Trist: On this album there's like a James Brown tune.
Speaker:Trist: There's a couple standards, a Charlie Parker thing, "Take the
Speaker:Trist: A Train," etc. but there are also these original songs, which
Speaker:Trist: I feel like some of them are probably just improvisations.
Speaker:Trist: Some of them might be creations
Speaker:Trist: where he has a specific melody,
Speaker:Trist: but I think your brain would
Speaker:Trist: react differently to one of
Speaker:Trist: those.
Speaker:Trist: So one of those things, after
Speaker:Trist: you hear it the first time ever,
Speaker:Trist: you've never heard the melody
Speaker:Trist: before.
Speaker:Trist: It's like, did you follow necessarily a melody, or were
Speaker:Trist: you just hearing a barrage of sounds that you could probably
Speaker:Trist: have several variations of what a melody would be?
Speaker:Trist: Whereas with something like "Blackbird," that everybody
Speaker:Trist: knows, your brain is filling in all those spaces.
Speaker:Trist: So that's another part of the genius of his presentation.
Speaker:Trist: And he's giving you just enough of all of the things that your
Speaker:Trist: brain needs to fill it out, because it's already heard it.
Speaker:Trist: It already knows what the chord progression is.
Speaker:Trist: It knows that the bass part does a certain thing.
Speaker:Trist: It knows the chords.
Speaker:Trist: He gives you just enough to
Speaker:Trist: remind you what they are, and
Speaker:Trist: your brain fills the rest of
Speaker:Trist: them out.
Speaker:Trist: Same with the melody.
Speaker:Trist: It doesn't have to sing absolutely every single note.
Speaker:Trist: He sings just enough of them
Speaker:Trist: that you recognize it as
Speaker:Trist: "Blackbird," and you fill in the
Speaker:Trist: rest.
Speaker:Trist: The internet exists, so I'm sure there's somewhere, someone has
Speaker:Trist: written all of that down.
Speaker:Trist: But to see how many notes of the actual melody that he includes
Speaker:Trist: would be pretty fascinating.
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah. And this goes back to one of our previous episodes where
Speaker:Elaine: we talked about "Over the Rainbow," and we had a
Speaker:Elaine: discussion about theme and variations and how
Speaker:Trist: Mhm.
Speaker:Elaine: our experience of the variations in jazz singing comes because of
Speaker:Elaine: our knowledge of the theme, and I think it's very similar to
Speaker:Elaine: this where we know "Blackbird" so well because it's just
Speaker:Elaine: permeated our collective consciousness as a society.
Speaker:Trist: Yeah.
Speaker:Elaine: But, we think about how we are filling things in because we
Speaker:Elaine: know the melody so well, and we begin to anticipate what's going
Speaker:Elaine: to happen at a particular point in time and what doesn't exist,
Speaker:Elaine: we fill in.
Speaker:Trist: That's what our brain does.
Speaker:Trist: I think I said before where we try to match it to something
Speaker:Trist: that we've already heard.
Speaker:Trist: Our brain finds the similarities and the differences.
Speaker:Trist: That's how when we're dissecting it like, oh, this is just like
Speaker:Trist: this and this and this and this.
Speaker:Trist: And then immediately, except for all of these differences.
Speaker:Trist: So, "Oh, yeah, that sounds just like that Beatles song I know.
Speaker:Trist: Oh, it is the same.
Speaker:Trist: Oh, except that has instruments and he's singing the parts and
Speaker:Trist: that has the oh, and that has a harmony vocal and this doesn't.
Speaker:Trist: That has a-" you know, so that's just what we do is like,
Speaker:Elaine: Mhm.
Speaker:Trist: what is it just like and then how is it different from that.
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah. Well any last thoughts about this?
Speaker:Trist: Oh, it's just great.
Speaker:Trist: Bobby's the idol.
Speaker:Trist: He's the best.
Speaker:Trist: If you don't know much, go down a Bobby McFerrin rabbit hole,
Speaker:Trist: get on YouTube or wherever and just start watching clips.
Speaker:Trist: Start listening to the man.
Speaker:Trist: He's done so much, conducted
Speaker:Trist: almost every major symphony
Speaker:Trist: orchestra in the world, has done
Speaker:Trist: solos with them, has conducted
Speaker:Trist: them, done albums with and
Speaker:Trist: toured with the Yellowjackets,
Speaker:Trist: other rhythm sections, small
Speaker:Trist: improv vocal group of his called
Speaker:Trist: Voicestra.
Speaker:Trist: Just kind of done it all.
Speaker:Trist: Really something.
Speaker:Trist: But check out this whole album and just imagine walking on a
Speaker:Trist: stage with just you and a microphone and keeping people's
Speaker:Trist: attention with music for an hour to ninety minutes.
Speaker:Trist: Amazing.
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah. And I was just thinking about a lot of people who are
Speaker:Elaine: outside of the vocal music or the jazz worlds probably only
Speaker:Elaine: know Bobby McFerrin from "Don't Worry, Be Happy."
Speaker:Trist: Ah, yes.
Speaker:Elaine: And there is so much more that this man has done, and I think
Speaker:Elaine: that it's important for us to just explore more of what even
Speaker:Elaine: the people who were listening to on the radio right now, like,
Speaker:Elaine: what else have they done?
Speaker:Elaine: Because he's like an iceberg.
Speaker:Elaine: Like what
Speaker:Trist: Hmm.
Speaker:Elaine: you have probably heard on the radio is just a tiny bit of the
Speaker:Elaine: rest of his work.
Speaker:Elaine: And
Speaker:Trist: Absolutely.
Speaker:Elaine: I think it's so important for us
Speaker:Elaine: to explore that a little bit
Speaker:Elaine: more fully.
Speaker:Elaine: So thank
Speaker:Trist: Right.
Speaker:Elaine: you for bringing this.
Speaker:Trist: Yeah. That reminds me of a phrase that I hear sometime.
Speaker:Trist: Like, "Whatever happened to...?" As if them not remaining in our
Speaker:Trist: daily consciousness means that they stopped doing a thing.
Speaker:Trist: You know, whatever happened to previous artists that we've had,
Speaker:Trist: "Whatever happened to Kenny Loggins?" Well, what happened to
Speaker:Trist: Kenny Loggins is he continued to make amazing albums that you
Speaker:Trist: just never listened to.
Speaker:Trist: You know, it's like just because
Speaker:Trist: he was no longer on every
Speaker:Trist: soundtrack.
Speaker:Trist: Well, that had its day in the
Speaker:Trist: 80s, and now he doesn't do that
Speaker:Trist: anymore.
Speaker:Trist: That doesn't mean he stopped making records.
Speaker:Trist: I think even a lot of them are greater.
Speaker:Trist: Same with Bobby.
Speaker:Trist: It's like, "Oh, 'Don't Worry, Be Happy.' That was really kind of
Speaker:Trist: fun from that one movie.
Speaker:Trist: Wonder what ever happened to
Speaker:Trist: him?" It's like "happened to
Speaker:Trist: him," again, because you didn't
Speaker:Trist: hear from him all the time means
Speaker:Trist: that something bad happened or
Speaker:Trist: he just went away or was no
Speaker:Trist: longer musical or popular or
Speaker:Trist: whatever.
Speaker:Trist: And there's no way they could still be making great music if I
Speaker:Trist: haven't heard of it.
Speaker:Trist: It's like you stopped seeking it out.
Speaker:Trist: That's what happened.
Speaker:Trist: Anyway, I'm done with
Speaker:Elaine: Well,
Speaker:Trist: that.
Speaker:Elaine: thanks a ton for this reminder.
Speaker:Elaine: He is absolutely brilliant.
Speaker:Elaine: And so we're going to wrap this up and move into our next
Speaker:Elaine: section, which is.
Speaker:Trist: Mail bag.
Speaker:Trist: Mail bag.
Speaker:Trist: Mail bag, mail bag.
Speaker:Elaine: All right.
Speaker:Elaine: Just a reminder for those of you
Speaker:Elaine: who want to get a hold of us,
Speaker:Elaine: feel free to ask your questions,
Speaker:Elaine: bring something up for the
Speaker:Elaine: mailbag, either via email that
Speaker:Elaine: is themusiciansloupe@gmail.com,
Speaker:Elaine: that's L-O-U-P-E, or via
Speaker:Elaine: Instagram or Threads again
Speaker:Elaine: @themusiciansloupe.
Speaker:Trist: Yes, that is a great place where you can tell us your favorite
Speaker:Trist: Bobby McFerrin track, or your experience, or your exploration,
Speaker:Trist: or if this is the first time you ever heard him.
Speaker:Trist: We'd love to know your thoughts.
Speaker:Elaine: Awesome.
Speaker:Elaine: So this week is from Threads.
Speaker:Elaine: It is from @angelmariagabrielle.
Speaker:Elaine: Her name is Maria Gabrielle.
Speaker:Elaine: And she asked this question in December of 2025.
Speaker:Elaine: "Question for artists, musicians, and producers.
Speaker:Elaine: What are some ways to get more
Speaker:Elaine: marketing and exposure besides
Speaker:Elaine: posting on social media and open
Speaker:Elaine: mics?"
Speaker:Trist: Mm. Man, it's a brave new world.
Speaker:Elaine: Well, let's go back to this
Speaker:Elaine: because I think you and I have
Speaker:Elaine: had experience with many
Speaker:Elaine: different eras of the music
Speaker:Elaine: industry or the local music
Speaker:Elaine: scene.
Speaker:Elaine: And so let's go back to like, what did we do when we first
Speaker:Elaine: started out in music?
Speaker:Elaine: Like how did you get exposure for m-pact or other types of
Speaker:Elaine: groups that you participated in?
Speaker:Trist: Well, yeah.
Speaker:Trist: For the level we were at, or any level, you could always explore
Speaker:Trist: and try new things and sometimes that was well rewarded.
Speaker:Trist: But there were more kind of set ways to do stuff like the way
Speaker:Trist: that you do it.
Speaker:Trist: Oh, you have this publicist who does this, and they place these
Speaker:Trist: things, and there are these magazines that have these places
Speaker:Trist: that have the information, and that's where you go.
Speaker:Trist: And these newspapers have these spots that you put the stuff,
Speaker:Trist: and that's how you do it.
Speaker:Trist: And these agents do that like it
Speaker:Trist: was just, "this is the way that
Speaker:Trist: it goes."
Speaker:Elaine: Right.
Speaker:Trist: And you didn't really think outside the box too much.
Speaker:Trist: Again,
Speaker:Elaine: Um.
Speaker:Trist: sometimes you could be rewarded for trying something different,
Speaker:Trist: but in those days you didn't need to necessarily, even if you
Speaker:Trist: think bigger artists, some big artists on a big label has a new
Speaker:Trist: album coming out.
Speaker:Trist: It's like, well, there's three late night talk shows.
Speaker:Trist: As long as you, Agent, and
Speaker:Trist: Record Company, have the number
Speaker:Trist: of the person that books those
Speaker:Trist: three and,
Speaker:Elaine: Mhm.
Speaker:Trist: back in the day probably were paying them something, a little
Speaker:Trist: wink, wink wink on the side.
Speaker:Trist: And if you knew the radio programmers that were going to
Speaker:Trist: program these a hundred best stations all over the country,
Speaker:Trist: you just did that.
Speaker:Trist: That's just the thing you did.
Speaker:Trist: You got on those shows and half of your budget of the entire
Speaker:Trist: album was to make a great video to be on MTV, because everybody
Speaker:Trist: was watching that.
Speaker:Trist: And that's just what you did.
Speaker:Trist: You just plug and play, "Oh, we got this thing.
Speaker:Trist: You make the product, here you go.
Speaker:Trist: You go through the process and that's it."
Speaker:Trist: Um,
Speaker:Elaine: Mhm.
Speaker:Trist: and man, that is some of that
Speaker:Trist: exists to some degree, but with
Speaker:Trist: fewer people watching regular
Speaker:Trist: television and with the way
Speaker:Trist: media is watered down and
Speaker:Trist: separated and spread all over
Speaker:Trist: and more of it available than
Speaker:Trist: ever.
Speaker:Trist: There's not a concentrated place that quote unquote always works.
Speaker:Trist: So the more creative you can be.
Speaker:Trist: There's still things like
Speaker:Trist: placement, trying to get a song
Speaker:Trist: placed in a movie or a TV show
Speaker:Trist: or an ad, or even down to more
Speaker:Trist: grassroots level of, being an
Speaker:Trist: opening artist for another
Speaker:Trist: artist that's like you, putting
Speaker:Trist: an ad at a particular club that
Speaker:Trist: you, think you would play at,
Speaker:Trist: being more creative with
Speaker:Trist: different products, trying to do
Speaker:Trist: collaborations with a soft drink
Speaker:Trist: company or in your local town,
Speaker:Trist: there's a company that makes X
Speaker:Trist: and you think that your songs
Speaker:Trist: could be with them and you do
Speaker:Trist: something together.
Speaker:Trist: I mean, you just have to be more
Speaker:Trist: and more creative all the time
Speaker:Trist: to get through, because there
Speaker:Trist: are fewer or fewer places where
Speaker:Trist: it's like, oh, this is just what
Speaker:Trist: you do.
Speaker:Trist: You plug and play and you just move along.
Speaker:Trist: You have to be more creative now.
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah. And I think that there are
Speaker:Elaine: some things that are still
Speaker:Elaine: classic opportunities.
Speaker:Elaine: You were talking about opening for existing bands, I think,
Speaker:Elaine: especially if you're new, that relationship of existing bands
Speaker:Elaine: who have existing fan bases, opening for them is a good
Speaker:Elaine: opportunity to expose yourself to other people, right?
Speaker:Elaine: And make sure that you are
Speaker:Elaine: gaining that level of marketing
Speaker:Elaine: to, again, a fan base that might
Speaker:Elaine: be very similar to what you're
Speaker:Elaine: going for.
Speaker:Elaine: So if you're a punk band, go play for another punk band
Speaker:Trist: Yeah.
Speaker:Elaine: and see if you can collaborate, tour together or whatever.
Speaker:Elaine: And I think that, again, when we're talking about local
Speaker:Elaine: exposure versus national exposure, I think there are
Speaker:Elaine: still evergreen opportunities out there that will still work
Speaker:Elaine: no matter what.
Speaker:Elaine: And I think one of them is opening for other bands who have
Speaker:Elaine: very similar kind of fan bases that you might want to access.
Speaker:Elaine: There are also, you know, local
Speaker:Elaine: venues who are looking for
Speaker:Elaine: talent.
Speaker:Elaine: And so if you're thinking about cafes or larger venues that you
Speaker:Elaine: might want to say, hey, here's my press kit, right?
Speaker:Elaine: Like who remembers a remembers a presser, right?
Speaker:Trist: Right.
Speaker:Elaine: And so putting together a press kit and saying, here's some of
Speaker:Elaine: my music, here's my social media so that you can reference it.
Speaker:Elaine: So even if you don't have social media reach, you actually have
Speaker:Elaine: content that they can take a look at and evaluate.
Speaker:Elaine: Is this person worth booking for my particular venue?
Speaker:Elaine: Even if you're not drawing people in directly.
Speaker:Elaine: So I think that those things,
Speaker:Elaine: even though the world has
Speaker:Elaine: changed in today's parlance in
Speaker:Elaine: terms of social media and open
Speaker:Elaine: mics, things haven't changed
Speaker:Elaine: that much.
Speaker:Elaine: I feel like relationship is
Speaker:Elaine: still at the center of how you
Speaker:Elaine: get gigs.
Speaker:Trist: And the other thing that is probably the most important of
Speaker:Trist: all of that is that the thing you're trying to get people to
Speaker:Trist: hear is incredible, is as good as you can make it.
Speaker:Trist: And if that's good.
Speaker:Trist: It spreads by itself, the word of mouth.
Speaker:Trist: Think of the number of times you hear something incredible that
Speaker:Trist: you share it with someone.
Speaker:Trist: Word of mouth is probably still one of the most powerful things.
Speaker:Trist: Again, even in the old systems I
Speaker:Trist: was describing, it's being on
Speaker:Trist: that show.
Speaker:Trist: Great.
Speaker:Trist: You plug and play in those
Speaker:Trist: places, but it's the number of
Speaker:Trist: people that saw it and heard it
Speaker:Trist: that told their friend, oh my
Speaker:Trist: goodness, I heard this amazing
Speaker:Trist: thing.
Speaker:Trist: So whether it's on a clip or opening a show for someone or
Speaker:Trist: got sent a link from somebody, it's definitely the word of
Speaker:Trist: mouth because it's so good.
Speaker:Trist: So can't skip the part where you are doing your art, to the best
Speaker:Trist: of your ability.
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah, a hundred percent.
Speaker:Elaine: I think that there is one other suggestion that came as a part
Speaker:Elaine: of this thread, right?
Speaker:Elaine: There were great responses to this particular question.
Speaker:Elaine: And one person suggested, I think what I would classify as
Speaker:Elaine: classic networking, which is meet other musicians.
Speaker:Elaine: And where
Speaker:Trist: Hmm.
Speaker:Elaine: do other musicians congregate?
Speaker:Elaine: Is it at concerts or is it like
Speaker:Elaine: music workshops and camps and
Speaker:Elaine: conferences?
Speaker:Elaine: And so as you are getting exposure to other musicians who
Speaker:Elaine: can help you to sharpen your craft, you also expose them to
Speaker:Elaine: who you are and the type of music that you make and forming
Speaker:Elaine: that personal relationship.
Speaker:Elaine: Certainly, that's how I found out about m-pact, right?
Speaker:Elaine: Was that I saw them at a conference and I was like, "Holy
Speaker:Elaine: cows, these guys are amazing," and got to know you as a result.
Speaker:Elaine: I think that's something that we should underscore, is that
Speaker:Elaine: community is so important to what we do as musicians.
Speaker:Trist: Absolutely.
Speaker:Trist: Whether it's promoting it or
Speaker:Trist: actually even helping form your
Speaker:Trist: band or finding other people to
Speaker:Trist: make music with, it's the same
Speaker:Trist: thing.
Speaker:Trist: Just be around people that are really great at the thing that
Speaker:Trist: you like or that you want to do.
Speaker:Trist: That's always a good suggestion.
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah. And I think also showing up.
Speaker:Elaine: Like how do you confidently show up for one another in
Speaker:Trist: Yes.
Speaker:Elaine: the gigs?
Speaker:Elaine: That also means that you need to tell people about your gigs.
Speaker:Elaine: And
Speaker:Trist: Right.
Speaker:Elaine: so pro tip from someone who is really busy, I would love to
Speaker:Elaine: hear about your gig earlier than the day of or the day before,
Speaker:Elaine: because I'm not
Speaker:Trist: Exactly.
Speaker:Elaine: very spontaneous and so I need
Speaker:Elaine: to plan to be able to go out of
Speaker:Elaine: the house.
Speaker:Elaine: and these are things that I would love to hear other
Speaker:Elaine: musicians give feedback on.
Speaker:Elaine: How have you found success?
Speaker:Elaine: Or, how have you been able to expand your reach even beyond
Speaker:Elaine: what people would consider modern day exposure, like how
Speaker:Elaine: social media, etc.?
Speaker:Elaine: How do you get your music in front of other people?
Speaker:Elaine: So with that, Trist, any last thoughts before we close out?
Speaker:Trist: That's it.
Speaker:Trist: Please send your thoughts if any of you artists out there was
Speaker:Trist: maybe the biggest thing.
Speaker:Trist: that surprised you the most in terms of, spreading the word
Speaker:Trist: about your art.
Speaker:Trist: What's the thing that maybe surprised you, that helped more
Speaker:Trist: than you thought?
Speaker:Trist: Let us know.
Speaker:Elaine: Awesome. Okay. And with that, we will see you next time.
Speaker:Trist: Bye!
Speaker:Elaine: I wasn't going to say this, but like LinkedIn.
Speaker:Trist: LinkedIn.
Speaker:Elaine: LinkedIn.
Speaker:Elaine: Um, my professional
Speaker:Trist: Sweet.
Speaker:Elaine: network.
Speaker:Elaine: So let's, uh.
Speaker:Elaine: Um,
Speaker:Trist: Uh, that's a whole other podcast.
Speaker:Elaine: as we're bringing in or sorry
Speaker:Trist: See what I did there?
Speaker:Elaine: Yeah I did.
Speaker:Elaine: Cute. Very cute.
Speaker:Elaine: there is a space that is available that.
Speaker:Elaine: I heard that.
